@circuitrider my nod to Grinnell for Science is BECAUSE Weslyan has PhD programs. I’m a scientist and this is based on my look at the Physics, Chemistry, Biology depts where I have expertise and my D19 was very interested in at Weslyan. We eliminated it after our investigation and a quick visit. Yes, they have million dollars of grant funding, but, I got the feeling that the professors focus there is distracted with research and PhD students and not teaching undergrads. Whereas places like Grinnell (full disclosure, a good friend of mine is a STEM professor there), Profs do research, but, it is more undergrad oriented as opposed to Weslyan or a research university like say, Chicago. Whenever you have grad students around, we felt that the benefit of a LAC science environment is lost. I don’t have hard data, but, my experience being in academic science research and industry research and being educated in a LAC myself.
You’re right, @EganAg, it is a different kind of research. It is more advanced. That’s the whole idea. Where I disagree with you is your assertion that somehow, because it is more advanced, that it is per se against the interests of undergrads. Just logically, it would seem advantageous to be taught by someone, under pretty much the same classroom dynamics as the best LACs in the country (i.e., Amherst, Grinnell, Bates, et al), but with a richer, more advanced resume.
Also, as a professional in the field, you must know the advantages for undergraduates of being able to intern in a laboratory all year round with the help of either grad students or a post-doc as opposed to only being able apply for summer research when their professors are no longer busy teaching.
@circuitrider It is the feeling that we got when we visited and chatted with science professors at Weslyan, Amherst, Midd, Bowdoin, Bates, Mac on our visits. You are correct. Weslyan prof emphasized working year around with a grad student. Whereas other places, the undergrad worked directly with the Prof. We felt that if I wanted my D19 or S19 to work with a grad student, they should chose a research university, not a LAC.
Well, @EganAg, all I can say, is that it’s quite possible that the OP is operating under a completely different set of biases and that maybe the opportunity to work year-round in an NSF funded laboratory - even, if only with doctoral students - might constitute an acceptable trade-off. Either way, it might behoove them to consider taking a spot on the Wesleyan W/L.
At the risk of angering Bates supporters on the thread- We felt that the Middletown and nearby Hartford are much nicer cities and thriving cities than Lewiston, ME. We loved walking around Middletown outside the Weslyan campus. Our walk from Bates to the center felt a bit depressing. But, had dinner at a wonderful vegan place called Guthries.
@EganAg , not angry. Lewiston has a lot of nice places now, and there are a lot of good restaurants. There is a lovely, long river walk that crosses the river to an outdoor theater venue and has nice views. There’s a bird sanctuary adjacent to campus where people run and walk. But I don’t think Bates people care that Lewiston isn’t beautiful. There is no question that it’s improved in the nearly four years since I started visiting there, and many will agree with me.
I love Wesleyan. I wanted to apply there back when I was in school, but my parents were not impressed with the upkeep of the place. I mean, they had leaves still on the ground in the Spring for crying out loud! Two of my ex’s family members went to Wesleyan undergrad and have achieved great success in their respective fields. My brother-in-law ended up at MIT for his PhD, and both the people of which I speak ended up, at one point or another, teaching grad school at Princeton. So I hold a Wesleyan education in high regard. I think it can take you wherever you want to go.
@wyorafter - your daughter can’t go wrong. And boy, she has a lot of great opportunities to choose from. But what a stressful process, huh? I was at St. Lawrence Easter weekend too! There’s really no place in the US from which that is a convenient trip!
Did Wesleyan offer admission to your daughter?
As Fulbright grants were previously mentioned, it may interest readers to have statistics for the three LACs (Bates, Grinnell, Wesleyan) that have been the foci of this thread. The Fulbright student awards for the five most recent years are shown below (and baccalaureate institutions are the reference class for rank).
Format: ordinal rank / institution / number of Fulbright grants / (number of Fulbright applications).
2018-19:
4 Bates 13 (60)
26 Grinnell 6 (22)
70 Wesleyan 2 (17)
2017-18:
1 Bates 23 (63)
15 Grinnell 8 (20)
24 Wesleyan 6 (38)
2016-17:
5 Bates 13 (54)
15 Grinnell 7 (28)
18 Wesleyan 7 (23)
2015-16:
3 Bates 18 (50)
30 Grinnell 5 (21)
33 Wesleyan 5 (22)
2014-15:
9 Bates 10 (34)
12 Grinnell 9 (35)
18 Wesleyan 7 (42)
She was offered admission to Wesleyan as well. They have given her a week.
A week is nice. Tough decisions to make, though. Is she leaning one way or another?
@circuitrider, I can assure you that I don’t have a horse in this race. You, on the other hand, seem to have dozens upon dozens of threads on Wesleyan forums, so I’ll take your enthusiasm for Wesleyan with a grain of salt.
OP can’t go wrong with any of the schools. My point was that since Bates was #5 of OP’s waitlist ranking (which, at the time, did not even include Wesleyan), I thought it should be taken out of the equation.
Whether in OPs shoes I’d choose Grinnell over Wesleyan or vice versa would depend on a variety of factors: financial, academic, geographical, and social. My D turned down a full tuition scholarship to Grinnell –– having just lost two faculty members that worked in D’s area of interest –– it happened, at the moment, to not be particularly strong in that subject. That said, they were planning to replace the faculty that had left, but not soon enough for D’s liking, who had other options that she preferred (she had also decided at that point that she was more interested in a research uni than an LAC, but OP’s MMV.)
As I said before, depending on other factors (in my post I mostly focused on academic area of interest, but there are others that I just mentioned in the last paragraph), the scholarship might make me more inclined to pick Grinnell over Wesleyan. At the end of the day, however, OP’s D can’t go wrong with either school.
Full disclosure, my husband chose Bates over Grinnell. My niece just chose Grinnell over a school (where she was a legacy) ranked higher than Wesleyan, Bates, or Grinnell.
In my mind the rankings are a wash. Grinnell has the highest stats. Wesleyan has, historically, the most lofty reputation. Bates has, as of this year, the lowest acceptance rate. USN? Grinnell. Forbes? Bates. WSJ? Wesleyan. All three are great schools, and all excel in different ways.
If finances aren’t an issue, as seems to be the case with the OP, the first tiebreaker for me would be the student’s desires. Where does she see herself? Which school tugs at her heart? The second tiebreaker would be the merit award from Grinnell. It would be tough to turn own that kind of money, all things being equal. Of course, it’s rare that all things are equal.
If finances are an issue the choice would be easy. Grinnell. If there are other factors (location, specific major, EC’s etc.) things become more complicated.
In any case the OP’s child really can’t make a bad decision.
In that Bates and, at least, Wesleyan, clearly have been making offers to their wait list applicants, these schools cannot be said to have firm acceptance rates for this year.
Even going to the waiting list Bates will have the lowest acceptance rate this year, but that wasn’t really my point. You can cherry pick statistics to support a decision to attend any of these schools. Endowment? Grinnell wins. Fulbrights? Bates wins. NSF funding? Wes wins. And so on…
Theses schools are close enough that who has a 30 point higher average SAT or a 5% higher yield wouldn’t be the deciding factor in my book. All three have nice campus cultures but they’re different, and there are curricular differences between the three schools. That’s what I’d be concentrating on.
I don’t see last year’s data for Grinnell (strangely, there is no data for '17-'18 or '18-'19,) but it admitted 97 from the WL three years ago. This year, the list here on CC apparently indicates that Grinnell is closed “for internationals" (is it open for citizens?) Last year, in addition to Bates, Wes also admitted zero from waitlist. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2141097-what-waitlists-are-active-who-has-closed-their-waitlists-p12.html Post #74 has the latest info.
It doesn’t mean much though. They are all very selective and we’re splitting hairs. All are great schools.
OP, we’d love to hear how your daughter is leaning.
I agree with @Sue22 post #74. OP’s D will be fine at any one of the places. It is where she is excited about going and the willingness to pay the associated cost. Another difference between the three that we remember from our visits (and we looked at Grinnell carefully even though we didn’t visit) is I think Wes has a Greek life and the other two don’t.
^Wesleyan’s Greek life is like a dog whose bark is bigger than its bite. The two remaining single-sex houses (out of a possible four or five that function as theme houses) occupy an outsized presence on the campus imagination mainly because of their central locations and, frankly, because they are the last vestige of all-male exclusivity in a sea of feminism. If more than 5% of the campus was Greek-affiliated, I’d be very surprised. Unlike many of its peer LACs, social life at Wesleyan is firmly in the hands of its music and arts community.
Right. I agree with the posters above.Where does your D want to go to school? If you’re saying you are ok with paying full price, what does she say? I don’t even think a debate about the merits of the schools makes much sense. She can’t go wrong. What is her gut telling her? She’s got the luxury of choosing with fit in mind.
Yeah, I wouldn’t put any weight on the fact that there is “Greek Life” at Wesleyan.