<p>@maddog15: Kudos to you for trying to make a difference. That takes courage.</p>
<p>Let’s be mature here. Life is full of bullies. Life, on some plane, may be nothing more than fighting, fleeing or negotiating with bullies. One of the most important tricks in life is to figure out to handle each bully. Running to momma sometimes works; sometimes not. Sometime it makes it worse. Much worse. In the end, each of us must learn that someday momma won’t be there. </p>
<p>I think that a school is absolutely correct to assume that it must protect its young from the oppressive. It also must teach its students to confront, address and defend themselves against oppression. Such teaching may be the essense of the school. But like so may lessons taught, it must be taught well, effectively and wisely.</p>
<p>Do BS’s teach this lesson well to their students? Do we parents teach this lesson well to our own children? Do we teach it well to ourselves? None of us can ever answer this question in the abstract. We can only hope to work thru and answer each quesion case by case. In some ways, learning this lesson over and over each day is the touchstone of justice. Who is the bully? Is there more than one? Are we a bully? How do you best address bullying? What is bullying? These questions are not always answered easily.</p>
<p>Witness Groton.</p>
<p>“I would like very much to believe that the kids who do ugly things don’t fully understand how ugly they really are.”</p>
<p>Neato - They may indeed understand, but do they CARE?</p>
<p>toombs, it’s hard to find fault with what you’ve said and i won’t try. on the other hand, kids learn a great deal from the models their parents provide for them every day of their young lives. if a 13 year old kid sees her/his parents being passive about personal injustices being wreaked on them, that kid is most likely to become passive herself/himself. we’ve preferred to give our kid a choice in these matters; i.e. this is what we think the response should be, and either you can do it or we will do it. after seeing us do it calmly but effectively, she/he is much better able to pick up the baton herself/himself.</p>
<p>leanid - I strongly disagree with your attributing such a malicious intent to these kids. They’re teenagers, after all, and even though they may think they know everything, they don’t. And although some of them may fully understand the impact of their cruel words, I think many more of them do not. Are they thoughtless and unkind? Without a doubt. But do they comprehend that their words or actions could be deemed a hate crime? I think not.</p>
<p>@jaypeeh - I’m not being in the least bit passive. What I’m saying is that I would like to believe they don’t fully understand how hurtful it can be. That doesn’t mean that I do believe it. I tend to give people, teens especially, the benefit of the doubt. I don’t see how that is passive. It doesn’t mean that I look the other way; it means that I approach the kid first by trying to discover intent. I don’t automatically assume evil lurks behind every action. Yes, the consequences may be evil, but I strongly believe that intent matters. Intent may not change the outcome, but to me, it changes the approach one may use in dealing with the situation. Apparently, this is an unpopular view. A rational, measured response, especially when it’s an adult dealing with a child, does not equal passivity. (The situation that I described was not nearly as serious as what I presume the Groton case to be like, btw. It was simply vulgar.)</p>
<p>@leanid - Sadly, I don’t think they do care. It is extremely distressing to me that witnessing another’s shame, humiliation, pain, etc, is something of a spectator sport at this point. The lack of empathy required to publicly post something hurtful about another is sociopathic.</p>
<p>Well, I, in turn, have to disagree with you dodgersmom. I think that anyone who has experienced the ugliness of bullying (as I have) firmly believes that the intent can and often does escalate to malice, if at first it is “in fun” . You will have a hard time convincing me otherwise.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom–I have to respectfully, somewhat, disagree. </p>
<p>I think our kids are much more worldly then we were at their ages. I think they sometimes use the “teenage” idea as an excuse to behave badly. Do they understand the long term implications for them–I doubt it. I believe that is what has appeared to have happened with the Groton student.</p>
<p>I have seen 8 year olds say mean things to their peers and when the tears come, smile as they walk away. They got the reaction that they wanted and they are pleased with themselves.</p>
<p>I firmly believe that most bully have been the the victim before, and/or just been the witness to bullying. The only way they know to fight back is to take on the role of their abuser.</p>
<p>But they know it is hateful, first hand.</p>
<p>Just my 3 cents.</p>
<p>Maddog15; brave post ! I’m proud of you.</p>
<p>Dodgersmom, I also disagree. Teenagers are young, but they are old enough to know when they are being cruel. High school bullies are trying to humiliate and hurt others. That is their intent, particularly when it’s online.</p>
<p>Well put, AlexzMom. And, neato, yes it does appear to be sociopathic.</p>
<p>I am well into middle age yet can still remember how it was as a teenager. I knew, damn well, when I was doing something wrong and I always felt that others did too. Recall that the teenage years are when we had more passion for just about everything in life. This is one of the incredibly great qualities of that age. We felt things more keenly, deeply and vividly than we now do. Why wouldn’t we also feel strongly for what was right and wrong? Why wouldn’t we have known that bullying is just plain bad?</p>
<p>Redbluegoldgreen,
</p>
<p>With respect, I disagree. Too much of the “anti-bullying education” I witness in the media verges on “how to bully.” The students who arrive at boarding school might be in doubt as to how to properly credit a source in a research paper. They know all about bullying. Remember, they made it through middle school.</p>
<p>I think there is about as much bullying going on now as there was when I was a teenager. Nowadays, though, the bullying leaves tracks. It can be printed out and shown to adults who can shut it down. It is no longer, “she said, she said.”</p>
<p>FWIW, I think 8th grade girls can be the cruelest people on earth in terms of intentionally making girls feel “other” or “less than”.</p>
<p>Has anyone read “Queen Bees and Wannabees”? Is it worth a read? I have found “Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters” to be informative and inspirational…and have “Reviving Ophelia” on my nightstand waiting to be read.</p>
<p>Seven: Reviving Ophelia is a wonderful book–I read it and found lots of application for boys as well as girls. Queen Bees and Wannabees is sort of interesting, but really one of those repetitive parenting books that you can skim through in about an hour. Does get at that 8th grade girl thing. I thought RO was more thought provoking and life affirming.</p>
<p>I’m with Dodgers Mom. While it might make me feel better to think that “Kids Today” are somehow more mean-spirited than I was in my day, I can think of at least one incident in seventh grade of which I --a far from popular but not bullied kid then–am completely ashamed. And I’m still sick when I think of the things that my college boyfriend’s fraternity did to girls–whom they categorized (and treated) as wives and whores–things that today they would no doubt gleefully put on youtube. I can’t say I see a big difference. In fact, I think it’s better today, because I see more kids willing to speak up against injustice than I ever saw back in the day. </p>
<p>Human beings have a cruel streak that comes out in awful ways in early adolescence. Teenagers’ brains aren’t fully there in terms of decision making and predicting long term consequences. Kids sometimes do things in groups that they would never do on their own. Adults have guns in their houses that they don’t always remember to lock up. Parents sometimes express anger at their kids’ actions that they might later regret. Schools have zero-tolerance policies that may sometimes hurt as well as help. Life is messy.</p>
<p>C’mon, let’s get off that "teens should get a break because their brains are still forming. " My kids have been hearing the lesson of kindness since they were two, from grade school on they’ve had seminars (in both public and private schools) on socialization, respect for others, getting along, etc., and by high school, they hear about the very public news stories (particularly in the past year) about cyberbulling and its effect (incl. suicides). The Choate mean girls absolutely knew better and should get a life lesson of losing out on finishing there. The Groton boy, while tragic, should have known better than to be sending homophobic messages. Stop the coddling. . . .</p>
<p>I look at scans of kids’ brains and see the big blank gray spots where adults have fully connected brain cells, and I don’t think it’s coddling to state that they simply don’t make decisions the way we do as adults. Yes, of course they’ve heard it and of course they should know better…and of course, none of us ever, as teenagers did stupid stuff that we now shake our heads in disbelief at having survived…</p>
<p>I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be consequences to homophobic actions or bullying. But more importantly, there should be an opportunity for truth-telling and reconciliation and forgiveness, or we all just get lost in a haze of accusation and hurt that’s never resolved.</p>
<p>Bullies always know exactly what they are doing, and bystanders are left feeling relieved or guilty they did not help out. People make mistakes, yes but they need to be accountable. The internet can be a wonderful source of support and resource (CC! :)), but it can also be an excuse to do/say things one would not normally say/do.</p>
<p>Yes. They should be held accountable. No excuses I just don’t believe that bullies always know exactly what they are doing. Not always. Life isn’t that simple–nor is the cure. And I’m saying this as a parent of a kid who was cruelly bullied by his former best friend.</p>
<p>The question now becomes, whether some of us like it or not, did Groton bully Hunter Perkins? Hunter’s father, who is a lawyer, will make sure he gets an answer to this question.</p>
<p>Did Groton have a zero tolerance policy on bullying? If so, was this policy clear and unambiguous? Did the school uniformily apply this policy? If bullies should be prosecuted when their targets commit suicide, should the head master of a school be prosecuted if he unevenly applies a conduct policy to a child who then commits suicide? If so, who is the bully? </p>
<p>We/Groton/all BS’s/all bullies are facing some some awful and painful days ahead. To harp on teenage bullies, albeit often justified, is not and should not be the sole focus of the Hunter Perkins tragedy. There are many questions to ask. There are many issues in the air. This is why the State is now investigating the death of Hunter Perkins. This is why this incident is so awful but so important.</p>