Guaranteed admission to first choice school

Parents Forum
1

<p>ok ... so I first looked into getting academic counseling for my daughter when she was in 10th grade. i thought i was way ahead in the game. little did i know that majority of the folks who do hire those services hire it much earlier.</p>

<p>i paid $225, via paypal, in advance, for an hour of consultation via skype. in that hour he interviewed my daughter thoroughly inquiring all sorts of things such as what courses has she taken, what is she currently enrolled in, and what are her hobbies etc.</p>

<p>next day, he sent his report (or shall i say quote) to me by email (i was not present during the skype conference). he told me how his service can be beneficial. he said his company will *identify/recommend courses to for next 2 years, *propose activities/camps for summers, *help identify colleges that match best with student's/family's need, and *help with college applications including essays etc.</p>

<p>it all sounded very appealing ... until i saw the price. at first, i honestly thought it was a typo. and it was that quote and the subsequent realization of the need for self-help that made me discover college confidential (at least some good came out of that consultation)</p>

<p>only when i thought i could never afford such an elite service, few weeks ago i saw an online ad for academic counseling service with guaranteed admission to student's first choice school at the fraction of the price i was quoted last year. very skeptically, i did call. i did not misread the ad. the gentleman explained that their consulting company has hired ex deans of admissions from very prestegous and selective schcools and that they still have 'connections' and 'influence' and if student decides to apply to any of those schools (couple of ivies included) and if student passes the consulting company's screening process, the company gives a money back guarantee in writing. price: $15,000.</p>

<p>the more i thought about it the more it strikes to me as a scam. if you think about it, its purely mathematical. you collect $15,000 from 100 super bright applicants. have them apply to a super selective school of 5% acceptance rate, which is where pretty much all of those clients aspire to go anyways. sit back and relax as no action on consulting company's part is needed ... remember they don't claim to coach or help with essay or anything ... they claim to use their 'connection'. if 5% of those 100 super bright carefully selected students are admitted, they get to keep $75,000 and return the monies collected from remainder of 95 clients. that concludes their contractual obligation.</p>

<p>assuming they don't have any such 'connection' as they claim, there is no doubt that it is unethical and immoral ... but is making such false claim illegal?</p>

<p>please treat this as an advisory and precaution ... and not as a business idea :)</p>

2

<p>I’m actually in shock that (reasonable) parents pay over $15,000 for college consulting services. I can’t imagine the worth of paying over even $1,000. Though, I’m sure people do fall for this scam, especially wealthy ones who are willing to do anything to get their child into the best school.</p>

3

<p>Nope. $15K is cheap. Michelle Hernandez’s full service package is three times that price and neither of these prices include the cost of the other things these counselors will tell you to do that can also cost an arm and a leg. </p>

<p>There are some reasonably priced services out there but finding them is the problem. I think that in the near future–in fact, I think we are there already in areas like NYC area–college counseling is going to be as common as test prep. The schools, both colleges and high schools fought the need for test prep for years, before finally having to succumb and now high schools offer the service on the premises even. For selective college entry, if you live in areas where you are competing with students just as talented as you are, those who have a savvy counselor who knows what s/he is doing is going to be ahead of the game most of the time.</p>

<p>The testing services used to offer “ivy guarantees” to select students. I don’t know if they still do this, but it used to be the case. If a student scores a certain threshhold in the practice exam, the test prep agency would guarantee a certain “ivy material” score on the actual test, or return of the money. I’ve also seen guarantees of certain improvements in scores, or a redo of the course and even tutoring. My friend’s son who did miserably after Kaplan test prep was permitted to join another class for another try. If you look at the statistics, there is no loss in offering these types of guarantees as long as you get enough comers paying down the money. So yes, if you have 100 ivy qualified kids applying to the ivies, and you are charging some absurd price for your services with a guarantee, the odds alone are on your side that enough will qualify for you to make the money. Also, those sort of kids with those sort of parents are likely to toe the line and do what is asked of them. Some of these kids spend 10 hours a week taking, going over, retaking SATs from 8th grade on. By the time they take them for real junior/senior year, what do you think they are going to get? Also there is a lot that parents have to do or hire a tutor/manager to do in keeping track of homework and studying so that the grades are as high as possible. You would not believe how managed some of these kids are in order to maximize their chances. You do have to have a certain type of kid to be able to have that type of control, however, and he does have to have the basic ability and motivation. The actual contract will spell at the terms very specifically for money back, and one does have to do whatever those counsellors lay out in order to be eligible for any refund if the results don’t pan out.</p>

<p>Oh and there is a lot of control in terms of picking that first choice school. It’ s not like the consultants are going to agree if they don’t think there is a reasonable chance for admittance. There is often a good chance the kid could get into the school without the package and half the hoops that have to be jumped.</p>

4

<p>All I can say is I could not be more happy to be DONE with this process. The numbers quoted above just blow me away.</p>

5

<p>“There are some reasonably priced services out there but finding them is the problem.”</p>

<p>Yes, and also, not everyone charges an upfront retainer. If you aren’t sure you will need many hours of service, it may be a much better fit to find a counselor who charges by the hour or allows you to buy just the services you want a la carte.</p>

6

<p>I guess it also shocks me that many students use these services at all. In my school district, absolutely no one pays for college counseling. The only test prep courses students take is the $25 course offered by the high school in the mornings (3x a week for an hour every morning for 8 weeks), which includes the price of the review book used. School counselors will advise students on the college application process if the students ask for it, but most do not. The district has about 15-20 students (out of a class size of 200) who matriculate at ivy-level schools each year. Considering this, how are these services really necessary?</p>

7

<p>Back in the last century I knew the owner of a small exam prep and college (mostly grad school) placement firm. They were very careful to promise admission to ONE school out of the three that the standard package included. Each client had free choice for two of the institutions on the list, and the company reserved the right to choose the third. Everyone got in somewhere - in some cases only that dead-on safety chosen by the company owner.</p>

8

<p>It is not a scam. If you want more info, we just had discussion about admission consultants.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1331573-college-consultants-value-venom.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1331573-college-consultants-value-venom.html&lt;/a&gt;
BTW, the rate for multi year advising is $40k+. $15,000 is the rate for a junior/senior year package, smaller packages are about $6k per school. I had linked some reputable websites in the thread for anyone who is interested in rates and services offered and so people have a clear idea what these consultants offer. No reputable person will tell you they sell connection. The top ones are former admission officers and help you better present the application and essay.</p>

9

<p>If it is any consolation, I think that $225 was a reasonable cost to pay for your daughter’s 1 hour Skype consultation, especially if it helped get her thinking about college now. Maybe high end of reasonable, but I don’t think the money was wasted. </p>

<p>From there, the next best investment you can make is a book… or 3. I’d suggest a college guide book - one that gives a profile of each college - so it is something your daughter can leaf through to learn about various colleges. My kids both favored the Princeton Review 3 hundred something best college book – there’s a new edition each year with updated info, so the stats tend to stay current, and the various lists are fun & give a good sense of the flavor of each college.</p>

<p>If your daughter is at a prestigious prep school or is a top student anywhere else, and you think she might be bound of an Ivy or equivalent, then a book geared to advice over Ivy admissions might be helpful. I must say that Michele Hernandez’ “A is for Admissions” book was tremendously useful in convincing my son that there was no need for him to bother looking at Ivies – it certainly make the process seem daunting. </p>

<p>Beyond that, you want a book that is geared to giving college advice to everyone else – all the kids who are reasonably bright but not amazing, and the parents who would like to see their kids get into a great college but understand that “great” isn’t always synonymous with “prestigious”. Colleges that Change Lives is a favorite for many.</p>

<p>If you were even considering a consulting outfit that charges $15K for anything, I’m assuming that financial aid isn’t a big factor for you – but if it is, book #4 should be one that deals with financing college & the financial aid system. </p>

<p>And go online and check the admission requirements for your state public university (or university system). All kids need a safety, and for those who are reasonably willing to attend their in-state public, in many cases the state u. will serve that purpose. </p>

<p>Finally: don’t pay any more for outside advice or consulting unless there is a specific problem that arises that makes your kid atypical in some way, or you need very specific help with part of the application process (such as test prep or help with essays). You are just paying other for information that is available free on the internet, or neatly packaged in trade paperback books – and the advice you get from the experts may be very wrong. </p>

<p>One of the experts whose name is mentioned on this thread told me privately that my daughter was on the wrong track with her college aspirations because of her SAT scores. I was told that my daughter did not have a chance of admission at her now alma mater. Fortunately, I knew enough to recognize that I was getting bad advice. The advantage of reading book instead of paying experts is that you will get an array of opinions, and can use your own common sense to decide which advice to follow.</p>

10

<p>Of course it’s a scam. Here’s the catch,

.</p>

<p>If a company is willing to bet 15K that your kid can get into a school, then obviously the kid has a really good shot at that school. Why anyone would pay the 15K is beyond me. The entire idea of “connections” and so on is a scam. </p>

<p>If a person wants to get some counseling, find a service that can provide useful guidance, not b.s. about “special connections.”</p>

11

<p>

Actually, the company is betting -0- – it is the parent who is betting $15K that their kid won’t get in. It’s a heads I win, tails you lose type of proposition. The company can take the $15K that they get from those 100 kids, put it all in interest-bearing securities, and pay back 90 of the parents in May, pocketing the $150K from the 10 “winners” and keeping the interest earned on the ante of the “losers”. (Admittedly not particularly lucrative at current interest rates, but if they get $15K from the parent of a current sophomore, even a 2 year CD at 1% would net them more than $300 of profit. Multiply that by 90 and it’s nothing to sneeze at. </p>

<p>Plus, the “guarantee” probably has all sorts of stipulations about what the client has to do, just like the test prep companies “guarantee” an increased test score, but only if the student attends all their classes & completes all the practice tests.</p>

12

<p>Here’s one of the clauses from a company that offers a $15K guarantee (I don’t know if it the same one OP was looking at):</p>

<p>

.</p>

<p>Given that top colleges typically waitlist a large number of students – perhaps more than they actually admit – this clause in itself is a huge hedge on the bet. Plenty of waitlisted students who are going to want to move on when they have other good offers in hand. Rather disconcerting if that is a $15K decision for the parents.</p>

13

<p>I thought this was a joke post and judging by the amount of members that viewed it and didn’t post I thought my suspicions were correct. However, now that some have decided to chime in, I will too . . .</p>

<p>I am shocked, SHOCKED(and not in a claude Raines way) that families would actually pay 40k to get their kids honed for the Ivies/top schools. I thought 15k was a joke and I’m a bit surprized at $225 an hour for a skype session. I suppose I shouldn’t be as there could be some rich parents out there desperate to turn their average kid into an Ivy candidate for any number of reasons including pride, legacy or their student’s desire to attend one. I supposed parents whose income is large enough to pay full tuition to any top school will have enough for another 40k as it’s like paying for another semester, less for that matter. </p>

<p>Having written all this I still have to shake my head and say, 40k? really? Far be it from me to tell anyone how to spend their income and if they feel spending that money is the only way to get their kid into an Ivy(I’ll assume they want HYP) or other top school, then so be it. I just feel that if a student is Ivy/top school potential it shouldn’t take 40k to help them reach it. Ah well, admission to top schools must be a rarer lottery ticket than I am aware of . . .</p>

14

<p>You’d be better off taking the $40,000 and trying to pay off the admissions officers at your first choice ivy. I hear that if you donate a large amount of money, you move up the pile of applicants.</p>

15

<p>megan12: Inventive.</p>

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16

<p>@ calmom
----“the next best investment you can make is a book… or 3. I’d suggest a college guide book - one that gives a profile of each college”----</p>

<p>that is exactly what i did. i bought books … more than 3 actually. i bought the one you mentioned, A is for Admission by Michele Hernandez … and i also bought the following:</p>

<ul>
<li>Choosing the Right College: The Whole Truth About America’s Top Schools

<ul>
<li>Fiske Guide to Colleges</li>
<li>The Insider’s Guide to the Colleges</li>
<li>Getting In: Inside the College Admissions Process - By Bill Paul</li>
<li>In! College Admissions and Beyond: The Experts’ Proven Strategy for Success - By Lillian Luterman and Jennifer Bloom</li>
<li>How to Be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get into College by Standing Out (Without Burning Out) - By Cal Newport (I haven’t read this one yet)</li>
<li>The College Admissions Mystique - By Bill Mayher</li>
<li>Collegeboard’s 2012 Book of Majors (Very informative book)</li>
<li>College Admissions: From Application to Acceptance, Step by Step - By Robin Mamlet and Christine Vandevelde; and</li>
<li>Crazy U: One Dad’s Crash Course in Getting His Kid Into College - By Andrew Ferguson (I can relate to this one hehe) </li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<p>----“If your daughter is at a prestigious prep school or is a top student anywhere else, and you think she might be bound of an Ivy or equivalent, then a book geared to advice over Ivy admissions might be helpful. I must say that Michele Hernandez’ “A is for Admissions” book was tremendously useful in convincing my son that there was no need for him to bother looking at Ivies”----</p>

<p>she is at a very large public school which barely crossed the 800 API score this year after few years of struggling. is she a top student? well, the school neither weigh nor rank the students so I guess I’ll never know if she is the top student of even in top 5% or 10% in her class. with 3 APs in 10th grade and 5 APs currently in 11th grade and 3 summers worth of college credit courses at community college, which too are part of her high school transcript, she is 3.7 un-weighted and 4.2 weighted (self calculation), I would like to believe she had to be somewhere up there, ,but I can’t be certain.</p>

<p>----“And go online and check the admission requirements for your state public university (or university system). All kids need a safety, and for those who are reasonably willing to attend their in-state public, in many cases the state u. will serve that purpose.”----</p>

<p>are you kidding me? I am in California. She would be more than happy to attend her in-state public university, which, in her case, would be the UCs. I don’t know where you are, but getting into respectable UC such as Berkeley, or LA, or even SD is not easy anymore. UCLA alone received 72,000+ applications this year.</p>

<p>@ DowneasterDad
----“I’m a bit surprized at $225 an hour for a skype session. I suppose I shouldn’t be as there could be some rich parents out there desperate to turn their average kid into an Ivy candidate for any number of reasons including pride, legacy or their student’s desire to attend one.”----</p>

<p>We are, by no means, rich. We are just about average in every which way, yes trying to turn, yes desperately, our average kid into an ivy candidate SO THAT SHE CAN GET ADMISSION TO OUR STATE PUBLIC UNIVERSITY because at 16% - 18% acceptance rate, looks like kids these days have to be ivy material to get into public school.</p>

17

<p>That’s complete BS. I’m a former counselor and admissions officer. I attend several conferences each year where counselors discuss the industry. Anyone claiming to have connections that will help is lying. Real counselors remain invisible in the process. A professional private counselor will ever discuss a specific student with colleges.</p>

18

<p>

There are 7 other perfectly respectable UC campuses. Both my kids opted originally for out of state colleges, but they were also accepted to Berkeley. Had my daughter remained in state, she made it clear that she would have chosen UCSB or UCSC over Berkeley, as she felt both offered better learning environments for undergrads. </p>

<p>Don’t get caught up in equating competitive admissions to quality. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>That is patently untrue. </p>

<p>All California residents are guaranteed a spot at a UC campus if they meet minimum eligibility requirements. That means completing the required A-G set of courses in high school, and a combined GPA & test score index as specified here:
[University</a> of California - Statewide path](<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/freshman/california-residents/admissions-index/index.html]University”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/freshman/california-residents/admissions-index/index.html)</p>

<p>If your daughter had weighted 4.2 GPA at graduation, that means your she would be guaranteed admission at a UC campus even if she averaged 430 on each section of the SAT. If her GPA was only 3.5, then scores of 600 on each section (1800 composite) would qualify her for admission. </p>

<p>If you aren’t rich, do you know if you would qualify for financial aid at a private college? The best thing you can do right now while your daughter is still in 10th grade is a financial reality check: figure out what you can afford to pay, and what, if any, need-based aid you could expect. For example, will your daughter be Cal Grant eligible? </p>

<p>The reported admission rates at the UC campuses are somewhat skewed because of the system of applications – everyone submits a single application and checks off the schools they want to be considered for. I think a disproportionate number of applicants probably check off Berkeley or UCLA even if they are not particularly well qualified, simply because their is no reason not to (other than saving on application fees). Also, more students are going to apply to urban universities, especially as tuition keeps climbing, as many parents can’t afford to pay for dorm fees – so probably an increasing number of applicants plan to commute. </p>

<p>So if your daughter’s goal is a UC campus, she can relax. Her grades are fine. Her test scores are likely to be fine. She can get an excellent education at any one of the campuses.</p>

19

<p>

</p>

<p>Why a state public? Save your money for the cost differential between state public and private or public out of state.</p>

20

<p>All I can say after reading this is I’m glad my Ivies stats (via test scores) guy looked through all the Ivy school materials sent to him from each of the schools and decided they weren’t places he wanted to apply to.</p>

<p>He did all of his own test prep - and mostly used books from the library. I think we bought one.</p>

<p>I doubt he’d have been accepted and definitely feel he wouldn’t belong socio-economically after reading this thread.</p>

<p>Good thing there are oodles of good schools out there for those of us without a need for a college consultant (at any price). ;)</p>