<p>Does anyone have a "feel" about the differences in the schools as a fit for a kid who loves to write, is used to tough academic rigor in his high school and is not into the drinking/drug scene? I have read some old threads on here, but wondered about more recent experiences. He obviously, loves the quaker colleges... Thanks!</p>
<p>These schools may have the Quaker thing in common, but Haverford is much more selective. A student looking for a Quaker college who is competitive for Haverford (but not a shoo-in), might want to look at Earlham College in Indiana as a more appropriate safety than Guilford. In turn, Guilford could be a safety for a student who seeks a Quaker school but is not a shoo-in at Earlham.</p>
<p>Guilford is a gorgeous campus and Greensboro NC is a great town…60 miles from Chapel Hill and 3.5 hours from the beautiful NC beaches, 90 minutes to the mtns. </p>
<p>Guilford is not as selective as Haverford, true. But its a great school. It has a very well renowned music school and summer music festival. It is sorta hippyish. Its liberal. But its top students also gain entrance to very selective grad schools, law schools and even med schools. So for those who are self motivated, focused and hard working, the rewards are there. </p>
<p>The environment at Guilford is VERY inclusive. They play Division III sports. Including an equestrian team.</p>
<p>Both are LACs with historic Quaker connections, but Haverford is a much wealthier and more selective college than Guilford. I’d expect better facilities, better financial aid, and possibly more rigorous classes at Haverford.</p>
<p>For a Haverford-quality student who can’t afford HC, Guilford might be a good option because of merit-based aid and the honors program. Any student interested in a Quaker environment should visit both places, and see what they think.</p>
<p>^^^ (tk)why would you expect better financial aid? The cost of Guilford is less than Haverford, right? And better facilities? Hmmm…depends on the major I suppose. But Guilford’s campus is very big, and absolutely stunning. More rigorous classes? Just because someone’s SAT score is below another doesnt mean those students arent’ working hard. The elitism of your remarks are rather offensive. Sorry. I take nothing away from Haverford. It has a fine reputation and it is higher ranking. But GREAT colleges exist below the top 50, fwiw. </p>
<p>Some kids like to be the bigger fish in a smaller pond anyway…sometimes for very practical reasons…getting into grad school or professional school. Happens all the time. </p>
<p>I would tell the OP to examine the programs.</p>
<p>Haverford’s cost of attendance is in the $57K range. If I am not mistaken, the school guarantees to meet 100 percent of need. (They did in 2010, per collegedata.com.) U.S. News reports an endowment of around $355 million. Average indebtedness of 2010 graduates: approximately $16K. </p>
<p>Guilford’s cost of attendance is around $42K per year. The data I’ve seen suggest the school does not guarantee to meet 100 percent of need (per collegedata.com, for 2010, they met 100 percent of need in about 13 percent of cases; average percentage of need met=87%). Average indebtedness of 2010 graduates: approximately $24K. Endowment as reported by U.S. News: around $62 million. Guilford gives merit, of course; 75 percent of all kids got it in 2010 and 11 percent of those without need got an average of $10K per year. That doesn’t sound especially generous in the aggregate, but I suppose it could work out well for certain applicants. </p>
<p>The way I read all this, financial aid at Haverford for a student with need would probably be superior to the package received from Guilford.</p>
<p>Haverford is widely regarded as one of the best LACs in the country, it boasts an outstanding student body, and has the resources to provide excellent aid. You also will have access to Phila. which is nice for a person who is not into drinking etc. For a person looking for academic rigor, Haverford seems the best choice.</p>
<p>I have been given the impression that Guilford has merit-based aid to hand out for the right student. If that is true, a student could end up with a more favorable package overall there than at HC which has a strictly need-based policy.</p>
<p>Guilford participates in the Bonner Scholars Program, which pays the equivalent of work-study income for time in volunteer positions. For a student who has a strong interest in community work, this might be a selling point. [url=<a href=“http://www.bonner.org/]default[/url”>http://www.bonner.org/]default[/url</a>]</p>
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<p>I suppose you must also be offended by the U.S. Olympic Training Center then. The top athletes in the country are invited to Colorado to challenge and push one another and train under the most accomplished coaches in the country. Their alternative option is to pass on the national-caliber training and compete among good but rarely great athletes closer to home. Clearly, the Olympic Training Center was created in order to address a need and fit a purpose for individuals who are near the tops in their fields, and that purpose is not mere elitism.</p>
<p>It does sound as if Guilford would have merit for the “right student.” And I agree that anyone interested in Quaker education should look at both these schools (and at Earlham, for the “three bears” approach to top Quaker institutions of higher education!). My point was simply that Haverford is known for good financial aid. Certainly, a Haverford-quality student whose family can’t afford what Haverford thinks they should be able to afford might be in line for good merit at Guilford. The Bonner Scholar Program is compelling; however, it is for high-need students.</p>
<p>
Without even comparing the Common Data Set numbers, I would expect Haverford to be able to offer more aid on average, just because it is a much richer school. Haverford has an endowment of $380M for ~1200 students, Guilford an endowment of $54M for ~2700 students. That’s a big, big difference in resources. Moreover, Haverford is a need-blind, full-need college ([Need-blind</a> admission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission]Need-blind”>Need-blind admission - Wikipedia)). Guilford apparently is not.</p>
<p>Now let’s compare some of the numbers in the CDS. The following are from the latest files I could find (2011-12 for G, 2010-11 for H).</p>
<p>…Haverford … Guilford
avg need met (line “i”) … 100% … 80%
avg scholarship (line “k”) … $34,673 … $18,232
avg loan (line “m”) … $788 … $5000</p>
<p>As of 2011-2012, Guilford apparently does not offer merit aid anymore. Haverford does not offer merit aid, either.</p>
<p>YMMV. I cannot very confidently predict how policies and averages might play out in the OP’s personal case.</p>
<p>
I’ve visited Haverford. Its campus is very nice. I’ve never visited Guilford so I can’t really compare based on personal observation. Haverford, again, is a much richer school. Therefore, I would expect that Haverford in general has better facilities, but for all I know it is not applying its money in ways that matter to the OP. S/he would have to investigate this. </p>
<p>I was thinking more of facilities like dorms, the library, gymnasium, etc., not equipment relevant to specific majors (such as science lab equipment.) This is something the OP could investigate on a visit if it’s important to him/her.</p>
<p>
Again, I’m simply describing a difference I would expect between two schools when one is so much more selective than another. But this is something the OP (or maybe somebody here) might want to try to investigate by examining real evidence … if it’s available. </p>
<p>Is there a significant difference in course content, reading loads, writing assignment loads, grade inflation/deflation? I really don’t know. Actually, I’ve never seen much evidence one way or the other that selectivity translates to significant differences in these areas. One thoughtful CC poster (annasdad) has suggested that in fact it does not (but I’m skeptical - I think in general it probably does). </p>
<p>My children attended Friends high schools. Guilford has been a rather popular choice among seniors at those high schools.</p>
<p>I’m curious what makes you say, “As of 2011-2012, Guilford apparently does not offer merit aid anymore,” tk21769. Here’s a link to the scholarship page on the school’s website: [Scholarships</a> | Guilford College](<a href=“http://www.guilford.edu/admission/traditional-degree-programs/tuition-financial-aid/scholarships/]Scholarships”>http://www.guilford.edu/admission/traditional-degree-programs/tuition-financial-aid/scholarships/)</p>
<p>thank you, lots of great stuff to think about, and certainly a number of factors. My son is a NMF, but as one said, liberal and hippy and wants inclusiveness, volunteer opportunities, and to be an active part of the college community. He also wants to be stimulated by his peers…
Of course, the decision may be made for us, he is admitted to guilford as it stands, and is still as with all apps, a don’t know yet from Haverford. We live in the south…but loved both tours and campus visits…</p>
<p>^ Look at the Guilford CDS for 2011-2012, Section H2A. The CDS is posted on Guilford’s own site ([Common</a> Data Set | Guilford College](<a href=“http://www.guilford.edu/academics/office-of-academic-dean/institutional-research/common-data-set/]Common”>http://www.guilford.edu/academics/office-of-academic-dean/institutional-research/common-data-set/))</p>
<p>Line “n” (Number of students in line a who had no financial need
and who were awarded institutional non-need-based
scholarship or grant aid): 0 (zero) for First-time Full-time Freshmen
(but 212 for Full-time undergrads)</p>
<p>Line “o” (Average dollar amount of institutional non-need-based
scholarship and grant aid awarded to students in line n): $0 (zero) for First-time Full-time Freshmen (but $12,000 for Full-time undergrads).</p>
<p>So I’m not sure what’s going on. A change in merit aid policy but failure to update the web page? No change in policy, but insufficient funds to actually award any merit scholarships? An error in the CDS?</p>
<p>If you have been admitted to both and money is not an issue, then hands down Haverford is a better choice. It is more prestigious, academic and you can go small liberal arts or take classes at UPenn in Philadelphia.</p>
<p>Maybe the OP could enlighten us on the availability of merit at Guilford, as his or her NMF son has been admitted. If you are comfortable sharing, can you say whether the financial package from Guilford included merit, lauren624?</p>
<p>lauren624, congratulations on your son’s admission to Guilford. Since he’s a NMF, I would think he’d be a great candidate for merit aid if in fact it is available this year. So has Guilford offered any? If not, do you have reason to believe a decision about that is forthcoming?</p>