<p>Can anyone tell me the strong points of GWU and why their BA/MD program is good?</p>
<p>All I know is that is very prestigious.</p>
<p>Strong points:</p>
<p>1) It’s 7 years</p>
<p>2) You get a $15,00 merit scholarship discount which you can deduct from the fixed tuition rate for BA/MD students of $56,329.
[Costs</a> of Attendance - The George Washington University](<a href=“http://www.gwu.edu/apply/undergraduateadmissions/payingforcollege/costsofattendance]Costs”>http://www.gwu.edu/apply/undergraduateadmissions/payingforcollege/costsofattendance)</p>
<p>3) You can feel pride knowing you would be at one of the few medical schools on probation:
[Problems</a> at GWU Medical School More Severe Than Described - The Paper Trail (usnews.com)](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/blogs/paper-trail/2009/02/23/problems-at-gwu-medical-school-more-severe-than-described.html]Problems”>http://www.usnews.com/blogs/paper-trail/2009/02/23/problems-at-gwu-medical-school-more-severe-than-described.html)</p>
<p>4) You’re in Washington D.C. which has a high standard of living and high crime rate.</p>
<p>5) It is unranked in US World News and Report.</p>
<p>whoa the above poster needs to get his/her facts straight. im a freshman at gw, and im in the program. yes, gw is pretty expensive, the total COA for all 7 years is just under 400K. but its totally worth it, cuz unlike other programs its actually at an awesome school in an awesome location. yes DC has some shady areas, but GW is in one of the safest and most affluent parts of the city. right now, im having a blast. the strong points of the program itself is that u get to save a year and u don’t have to take the MCAT. honestly though, this program, even though its extremely competitive, isn’t for ppl who just wanna spend as little time and money as possible to get their md. its for ppl who actually wanna have fun and enjoy college, and will make the most of their three years at gw. the program actually encourages u to explore ur interest and not just major in bio (im planning to major in psych). and yes GW’s med school is currently on probation, but by october 2010 it will be fully accreditied, and this will be before me or any of u guys even enter the med school. there are two main disadvantages to this program. before the gpa requirement was a 3.3, and u could count ur first year of med school as ur last year of college to get ur BA. Now the gpa requirement as been upped to 3.6, and u have to earn all 120 credits to get ur BA before u start med school. in other words, if u come in with less than 30 credits, youll need to take more than 15 credits a semester or take summer classes. luckily i came in with 31 haha. still tho, i think this is one of the best ba/md programs out there. the only two programs u should take over this is usc’s (but only if u get a full scholarship for undergrad) and of course northwestern hpme. best of luck to u.</p>
<p>Sorry, “Barrack Obama”,</p>
<p>You are only a FRESHMAN in the UNDERGRADUATE part of the program. You aren’t even close to being in the medical school portion of the curriculum yet.</p>
<p>You pay $56,329 annually (this doesn’t even include yearly inflation) for each year in the 7 year program for both undergraduate and medical school, which is a little less than $400,000 dollars (as you said in your post).</p>
<p>You are paying MORE than what an undergraduate pays in tuition at GWU of $41,610 and MORE than what a traditional medical student pays in tuition at the GWU Medical School of $45,892. You are also paying MORE than what you would have at an Ivy League undergrad and an Ivy-League and/or top-tier medical school together, just for the benefit of “save a year and u don’t have to take the MCAT” and “have fun and enjoy college” something you could do for A LOT CHEAPER at better Bachelor/MD programs or even in doing the traditional way. As far as assortment of majors other ones also let you choose a major besides a science major so that is nothing special about the GWU program.</p>
<p>Assuming you aren’t a trust fund baby or both your parents aren’t rich doctors, and you have to get some loans, this doesn’t even take into account the accruing interest you would have to pay on that $400,000. This is A RIDICULOUS AMOUNT for an undergrad and medical school and it’s at an unranked medical school by US World News and Report.</p>
<p>[George</a> Washington University - Best Medical Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/items/04017]George”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/items/04017)</p>
<p>On top of all that, you have to come in with a lot of credit hours just to not have to take summer classes or not have to take an overload in credit hours each semester.</p>
<p>As far as crime - people will not be “living” at GWUMC, they will be living in Washington, D.C. and yes crime IS a problem.</p>
<p>Obviously if you see the news article below, GWUMC’s problems in accreditation are pretty bad, if it made it in a national magazine like US World News and Report and others. This isn’t just a superficial problem on lounge space, it runs deep into the medical education at GWUMC. You’re only ASSuming that GWUMC will be off probation in October 2010 because that is around the time the LCME will be making a visit and your administration has “ASSured” you of that. They will not know until then, if they are - they’re just projecting that.</p>
<p>[Health</a> Care Renewal: Conflicts of Interest and George Washington University Medical School’s Probation](<a href=“http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2009/02/conflicts-of-interest-and-george.html]Health”>Health Care Renewal: Conflicts of Interest and George Washington University Medical School's Probation)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Washington Post: [Panel’s</a> Review Lands Medical School on Probation - washingtonpost.com](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/15/AR2008101503120.html]Panel’s”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/15/AR2008101503120.html)</p>
<p>[University</a> Diaries Conflict of Interest at George Washington University Medical School](<a href=“http://www.margaretsoltan.com/?p=9618]University”>http://www.margaretsoltan.com/?p=9618)
</p>
<p>It seems like you’re more interested in cheerleading for your school to divert from facts, rather than giving prospective applicants on CC the real deal.</p>
<p>um when i said the total cost of attendance was just under $400K I meant the total cost of attendance for EVERYTHING for all seven years, including not just tuition, but books, room and board, living expenses, equipment fees in medical school, etc. obviously this wouldn’t be possibly if you actually paid $56,329 in just tuition per year, and thats cuz u DON’T. everyone in the program gets a $15,000 scholarship for all 7 years, so you actually are paying $41,329 per year, which fyi MD2B2012 is less than what you’d pay for GW undergrad and med school normally. i guarantee that if u did the traditional route and went to an ivy for four years and then med school, you’d be paying around the same amount, if not more.</p>
<p>and no matter what u say, crime is not something you really need to worry about in NORTHWESTERN DC (again, if GW was in a different quadrant of DC, it would be a different story). </p>
<p>and yes, i did say that the fact that you need to come in with at least 30 credits to not have to worry abt summer classes or credit overloads is one of the only disadvantages of the program, but frankly if you haven’t taken around that many ap credits in high school, u prolly won’t get into the program.</p>
<p>and finally about GW’s accredation status it doesn’t really matter, because every single American med school that has been on probation has always gotten off, so in a few months i’m positive that w/e problems may exist will be solved. and maybe GWUMC is “unranked” (probably because it isn’t a research heavy school), but anyone who has seen its residency match list knows that it speaks for itself.</p>
<p>Obviously you didn’t see my first post where I said:</p>
<p>2) You get a $15,00 merit scholarship discount which you can deduct from the fixed tuition rate for BA/MD students of $56,329.</p>
<p>Most people in talking about school costs don’t include room/board and living expenses as it highly varies depending on where you live and your miscellaneous expenses.</p>
<p>“i guarantee that if u did the traditional route and went to an ivy for four years and then med school, you’d be paying around the same amount, if not more.”</p>
<p>Well let’s see then, let’s take as an example:</p>
<h1>1 ranked Undergrad:</h1>
<p>Harvard Undergrad = $37,012
[Harvard</a> University - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report<a href=“and%20this%20is%20without%20any%20financial%20aid%20offered%20whatsoever%20,%20so%20in%20reality%20actually%20it%20would%20be%20much%20lower%20as%20Harvard%20gives%20it’s%20students%20a%20very%20significant%20amount%20of%20financial%20aid%20-%20and%20if%20your%20parents%20make%20$60,000%20or%20less,%20it’s%20free”>/url</a></p>
<h1>1 ranked Medical School:</h1>
<p>Harvard Medical School = $39,900
[url=<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/items/04047]Harvard”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/items/04047]Harvard</a> University - Best Medical Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/cambridge-ma/harvard-university-2155]Harvard”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/cambridge-ma/harvard-university-2155)</p>
<p>= $307,648 in tuition and fees (this is before calculating any financial aid whatsoever) at the #1 ranked undergrad and #1 ranked medical school in the country</p>
<p>at GW = $289,303 in tuition and fees (including financial aid of the $15,000 discount) at an unranked medical school, the undergrad is much better ranked at #53.</p>
<p>That’s the point “Barrack Obama” - In your case you are paying more than the top-tier price annually not for a high ranked, top notch undergrad and medical school, but for an unranked medical school currently on probation for major issues.</p>
<p>30 credit hours of AP credit is a ridiculous amount to have to come in with just so you don’t have to take summers. Many have taken the AP high school course and not taken the exam. AP scores are not used for admissions. They are more used once you’ve gotten in. 30 credit hours is nearly a years worth of credit - 15 credit hours each semester (in 2 semesters). So essentially the year of undergrad you are missing in your program is already done by yourself through testing credit. You could have done 3+4, at a top ranked undergrad in 3 years and gotten the same if not better result.</p>
<p>Feel free to post your medical school’s prior match lists.</p>
<p>yes, MD2B2012, i did say, “if u did the traditional route and went to an ivy for four years and then med school, you’d be paying around the same amount, if not more,” and your calculations made my point exactly. and yes GW undergrad and med school is not ranked nearly as high as harvard, and i never said it was. most ppl know that as long as you’re graduating from an american allopathic medical school, rankings are basically non-relevant. what gets u into a good residency is not the name of your school, but your grades in med school, your board scores, and your research. if it was so important to go to Harvard undergrad and Harvard med school, top-notch students wouldn’t pick guaranteed med programs (which usually aren’t at the greatest schools) over ivys, but they do, and thats because those who know how medical education works in this country realize that a guaranteed seat in medical school is much more important than going to the most highly ranked undergrad and med school. as i tried to explain in my first post, what makes GW such a competitive and attractive program is that its at a university that may not be super prestigious, but still offers a high quality of life, just lk ivies, and unlike other universities that have programs (such as UMKC and VCU for example).</p>
<p>no, i’m not gonna post GWUMC’s residency match list cuz ppl can search for that themselves, and i never intended to argue with you, simply to inform the poster abt what are some of the strong and weak points of GW’s program. maybe you think 30 AP credits is “ridiculous” but I am in the program and can assure u that most ppl in my year came in with around that many. still, i have already admitted that this is one thing that i don’t lk abt the program, but to say that “You could have done 3+4, with undergrad being in 3 years and get the same result” is to neglect the highlight of the program, which is not that u save a year but that you have a guaranteed seat in med school.</p>
<p>You’re still not getting so I will explain it one last time, the point is you are paying the same amount of money but getting A LOT LESS out of it, Harvard vs. a non-ranked school on probation. That’s the point which you obviously missed. I used Harvard as an example. There are MANY MANY more schools ranked higher and are better than GWU’s medical school. Just bc your school is closer to the White House doesn’t make it better.</p>
<p>As someone who is actually in medical school right now at UPenn, I know A LOT more about the process than you as an college freshman in his/her first semester. You obviously know very little about how the match process works. The medical school you go to DOES HAVE AN IMPACT on the residency match process ESPECIALLY when it comes to getting interviews at competitive specialties. Now if you are not interested in a competitive specialty or just want to do primary care, then that’s fine. But EVERYONE has board scores and takes the USMLE, has grades, etc. the only difference being the school you go to and the quality of your education which is different and speaks more than a 1 day standardized exam or subjective rotation grades.</p>
<p>If you look at match lists of those schools it’s very clear. Example: Just this last year, Harvard matched 13 people into Dermatology. That just doesn’t happen at an unranked school or a middle-to-low tier school, no matter even if they had astronomical board scores, grades, etc. There are TONS of top tier medical school med students who didn’t have the academic stats of middle-to-low tier medical students but still got top notch residencies, unlike their counterparts. You will find that out soon enough.</p>
<p>“top-notch students wouldn’t pick guaranteed med programs (which usually aren’t at the greatest schools) over ivys, but they do, and thats because those who know how medical education works in this country realize that a guaranteed seat in medical school is much more important than going to the most highly ranked undergrad and med school” ==== </p>
<p>Wrong again - students pick these programs bc they are so scared to the core and in mass hysteria about the MCAT and getting into medical school (thinking they won’t even get into one), that they pick any guarantee thrown at them not realizing that they are greatly settling before the game has even started or going to a school in which they might not have their residency program that they would be interested in or that certain opportunities like research are not available. Certain middle-low tier medical schools know about this fear and capitalize on it, knowing full well that they wouldn’t get such high caliber applicants otherwise through the normal AMCAS process. You’re paying over $400,000 to save one year (wow!) for a spot at a probationary med school (the only school right now that is bc you have to really try hard to have the LCME put you on probation) - which as per those articles (if you had read them) are deep deep problems in their medical education, not just simple superficial issues.</p>
<p>“no, i’m not gonna post GWUMC’s residency match list” = I’m making things up about how great GWU’s match list is.</p>
<p>It’s obvious you are not able to back up what you say, which is why you say “anyone who has seen its residency match list knows that it speaks for itself.” — unless you mean speaking for itself as in it speaks bad for itself.</p>
<p>@barack Obama</p>
<p>add Brown’s PLME to the list as well</p>
<p>So,</p>
<p>USC, Northwestern HPME,and Brown’s PLME</p>
<p>There are good ones, GWU doesn’t happen to be one of them. Actual good ones worth going to:</p>
<p>Rice/Baylor, WUSTL, SLU, UPitt, NW, Brown, Penn/Jefferson, Case Western</p>
1 Like
<p>@ Korean_Dreamer, yea PLME should def be added to the list.</p>
<p>and to MD2B2012, frankly i think we need to end this argument, because u don’t seem to understand why everyone on this thread is so interested in ba/md programs. for most of us, its not that were “scared of the mcat” or that we won’t get into med school; i’m well aware that if i had declined GW’s 7 year for a better undergrad, i could probably have gotten into a better med school than GW. but i would have had to work a lot harder in college and i would been under a lot more stress, and i would rather enjoy my college years to the fullest. and why would u say that “you’re paying over $400,000 to save one year” when you yourself did the math and came up with $289,303 in total tuition, and when I explicitly said in my earlier post that the point of the program isn’t the acceleration, its the guarantee. and i don’t think the match list is easily available otherwise i would post it here. i looked at it at my ba/md interview, but if you think it’s weak (which it’s not) than feel free to spend your own time to find it and post it here. to believe that certain american allopathic med schools provide a better education than others confirms my suspicions that you are an elitist. also i never said that where u went to med school doesn’t matter at all, but everything else is astronomically more important </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/375248-does-matter-what-medical-school-you-attend.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/375248-does-matter-what-medical-school-you-attend.html</a></p>
<p>and wow if you think that slu’s program is better than gw’s, u are clearly delusion.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well as long as you acknowledge, as you just did, that you are doing it for your own psychological reasons and insecurities, rather than actual rational reasons, that’s all that’s important. Obviously, you must be a trust fund baby or have very rich parents, as for most people, the level of insane, ridiculous debt burden (even just for a guarantee) at GWU would still cause a lot of stress and not allow one to enjoy their college years. The LCME even said that at your school “Student debt levels are among the highest in the country, according to the seven-page letter sent by the accrediting agency in June and later obtained by The Post.” So it’s even acknowledged by your own school!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s bc I am using YOUR figure of $400,000 of total costs. Realize that $289,203 is without accrued interest. As I said before, the amount of money you’re paying, is not worth the guarantee, considering the only things you’re missing vs. a 4+4 student is taking the MCAT, one extra year of undergraduate study, and not being on probation. I’m not even referring to the acceleration. It’s not even worth the guarantee just bc you were didn’t want to “work a lot harder in college and i would been under a lot more stress, and i would rather enjoy my college years to the fullest”.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No, it’s called the truth. Ask any residency program director in a competitive specialty not at GWU. Everyone takes the USMLEs, everyone has preclinical courses, everyone has clinical rotations, everyone has a Dean’s letter, and gets involved in extracurriculars and research opportunities available at their specific school, so what’s the difference? Oh, that’s right - the medical school. If they were all the same, then every school’s board score averages would be the same and there would be no advantage, but obviously there is - as you YOURSELF even acknowledge that you could have got into a better school - the only difference is you think it makes no difference as that’s how you’ve rationalized it to yourself in your mind. But don’t worry you get to “avoid working a lot harder in college and i would been under a lot more stress, and i would rather enjoy my college years to the fullest” (be sure to tell this on your residency interviews - I’m sure they’ll love this attitude as a resident.</p>
<p>It’s quite obvious you know nothing about what is important in the residency match process. Different allopathic schools DO have different levels of quality of education. That is a KNOWN fact. The fact that you don’t know this simple fact or are in denial, explains your extreme naivet</p>
<ol>
<li>lets take a poll of how many ppl on cc would take slu’s program over gw’s. there’s probably a reason gw’s program is so much more selective (gw takes 15 out of 700 and slu takes 100 out of 1500, and all u have to do is check off a box to be considered. for gw u need a 1400 SAT just to apply). </li>
<li>how is 400K for all 7 years a bad deal? going to any private school for just undergrad is already 200K.</li>
<li>us news ranks medical schools largely based on how much research money they bring in, and gwumc is not a research school, though with the NIH headquarters nearby research opportunities are readily available.</li>
<li>whatever problems gwumc has, why does it matter when they will surely be fixed in a few months? lk i already said, no med school placed on probation has ever lost accreditation. </li>
<li>u are greatly exaggerating how the name of your school helps u get into competitive residencies. there are a few med schools that might give u a slight edge and even fewer of those schools have ba/md programs (NW and Wash U are the only ones I can think of). for all other med schools it doesn’t really matter, and regardless of where u go, everything else is way more important.<br></li>
</ol>
<p>“Everyone takes the USMLEs, everyone has preclinical courses, everyone has clinical rotations, everyone has a Dean’s letter, and gets involved in extracurriculars and research opportunities available at their specific school, so what’s the difference? Oh, that’s right - the medical school.”</p>
<p>no, the difference is what u GET on ur usmle, the grades u EARN in ur preclinical courses and clinical rotations, what the dean’s letter actually SAYS, and how distinguished ur extracurriculars and research are (i.e. if you’ve been published).</p>
<p>do not argue with MD2B2012. it is an uphill battle</p>
<p>A battle in which both of you are severely misinformed and missing of the realities and facts of medical school and the residency match.</p>
<p>I agree w/ BarrackObama; eventually, it odes not matter. If one wants to specialize in Cardiac health, then he or she will get a residency in that (does it matter where you go to do residency…?) Also, if one becomes a physician or family care/internal med. specialist, there is advantage of attending an ivy medical school. Also, GW will get out of probation status; its is an important institution in the D.C. area and they are fixing all their problems.</p>
<p>Barrack,</p>
<p>You mentioned the minimun requirement for SAT is 1400 and to maintain a gpa of 3.6.</p>
<p>I check the GW website and did not see a minimum requirement for SAT. Do you have a link. I tend to remember from the information session that 700 verbal and math is the average but not minimum requirement??? Also the gpa needs to be maintain is 3.7.</p>
<p>“The student must maintain a minimum grade of B in courses required for admission to the medical school, and an overall 3.7 average. In addition, community service is required each year. The review committee makes a final recommendation concerning promotion to the medical school curriculum at the end of the third year.”</p>
<p>they keep upping the requirements. for our year the gpa requirement was 3.6, two years ago it was 3.3. its possible that there is no longer any minimum admissions requirements, but i know that what it used to be was at least 1400 SAT and at least top 10% of ur class.</p>