Haas vs. Other undergraduate business schools

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of California - Berkeley
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I have some questions regarding Haas and a business major in general.</p>

<p>First, what is the difference between starting business in the junior year at Haas and starting freshman year at other schools like Marshall (USC) and Wharton (UPENN)? Since you do not know whether or not you get into the business major at Haas when you apply for freshman admissions, does that present itself as a risk?</p>

<p>Second, does a business major cover everything related to business? If I'm thinking about becoming an investment banker, does a business major teach me that occupation? What does it take? An MBA?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

2

<p>
[quote]
First, what is the difference between starting business in the junior year at Haas and starting freshman year at other schools like Marshall (USC) and Wharton (UPENN)? Since you do not know whether or not you get into the business major at Haas when you apply for freshman admissions, does that present itself as a risk?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think you just answered your first question with your second question. It is indeed a significant risk to have to defer knowing whether you will get into Haas until you are already 2 years into Berkeley. A significant percentage - generally around 40-45% - of those sophomores who apply to Berkeley don't get in. And of course that doesn't include all those people who don't even apply because they know they won't get in. For example, if you have a 2.3 GPA as a sophomore, you know you're not getting into Haas, so why even apply? Add in those people, and I think it's safe to say that a strong majority of those who came into Berkeley intending to get into Haas won't make it and are hence forced to major in something they don't really want, or else have to transfer to another school entirely. </p>

<p>
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Second, does a business major cover everything related to business?

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</p>

<p>Ha! Hardly. It probably doesn't even teach you 0.1% of what you need to know for business. But see below. </p>

<p>
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If I'm thinking about becoming an investment banker, does a business major teach me that occupation?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Not really. But that doesn't matter. The real question is whether you can get an investment banking offer through Haas, and the answer to that is 'yes'. After all, it doesn't really matter if you know how to be an investment banker if you can't actually get an investment banking offer.</p>

<p>It should also be pointed out that you don't need to be a Haas business major to get an Ibanking offer. I know people who majored in MCB and various humanities who got Ibanking offers. You have to understand that Ibanks are not really recruiting you for what you learned in college. You are going to learn everything you need to know via on-the-job training. What can't be trained - and hence, what they are recruiting for - is raw talent, personality, and work ethic. If you don't have these attributes, especially the personality, you're not going to get an Ibanking offer no matter how strong you are academically. As a case in point, I know a guy who majored in business (but at MIT Sloan, not Berkeley) who was a genius and got stellar grades, but whose social skills were fairly mediocre. Unsurprisingly to me, he didn't get a single Ibanking or consulting offer. {But then again, he probably didn't mind as he got into the PhD program that he wanted.} </p>

<p>
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What does it take? An MBA?

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</p>

<p>Ha! An MBA doesn't teach you everything you need to know either. In fact, again, it barely even teaches you the essentials. Furthermore, most MBA's - especially if they come from schools outside the top 15 - can't get an Ibanking offer either. </p>

<p>But again, this is a matter of putting the cart before the horse. Before you worry about knowing what you need to perform an Ibankers job, you first have to get an Ibanking offer. Some MBA programs, i.e. Harvard and Wharton, are stellar recruiting grounds for Ibanking.</p>

3

<p>Haas is a great school with a renowned reputation. It is very competitive though. I believe they only accept something like 13% of pre-business majors (though, like Sakky said, some of that is due to them dropping out). I'm not going to pretend to know all the details, bc I don't, but it WILL prepare you well for whatever job you choose.</p>

4

<p>sakky is right. the business world doesnt seem be overly concerned with your major. i know a person who graduated from mit as a chem major and is now working in finance make $$$$$$.</p>

<p>but a good resource to check out is business week. they publish their own ratings of undergrad b-schools with lots of detailed information that will help you including stuff like employer satisfaction.</p>

<p>btw sakky im such a noob but how do you quote like that?</p>

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<p>here's how do the following but take out the spaces after and before brackets to begin [ quote ] to end [ /quote ]</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
here's how do the following but take out the spaces after and before brackets to begin [ quote ] to end [ /quote ]

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</p>

<p>sweet thanks</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Hi,

[/quote]

Aha~ that's nice. I was wondering how to quote like that. Now I do.</p>

8

<p>


</p>

<p>Next lesson is to learn how to quote like this ^. ;)</p>

9

<p>wanna explain UCB lol? i'm curious. and i still don't get the original one. i think i'm clicking the wrong button. it's a good thing i'm not applying as a comp. sci major lol.</p>

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<p>^ Haha.</p>

<p>[ quote ]i'm curious.[ / quote ] delete all the spaces in the
[quote]
brackets, it becomes:</p>

<p>
[quote]
i'm curious.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>To associate it with a name, do this:
[ quote=vc08 ]i'm curious.[ / quote] becomes:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Or, read the instruction manual under the FAQ link. ;)</p>

11

<p>Back to the issue at hand, basically Sakky's right on in the things he says. I would add that it's my perception (and please correct me if I am wrong, anyone) that i-banking recruiters that recruit at Berkeley greatly favor Haas undergrads vs. folks graduating with other majors. Then after that folks with good records in engineering (demonstrated quant skills) would also be high up on the list. I think this happens more at Berkeley than, say, recruiters select Wharton undergrads over other Penn undergrads, but I could be wrong.</p>

<p>Oh, and the final thing: pay attention to what Sakky said about what they look for: personality, raw talent, work ethic. I had a not so close friend who tried to convince me at one point that I should try for an i-banking job; his perception was that I had a shot at it. More than having no desire to do i-banking, I knew I didn't have the personality for it. I thought it was remarkable he was trying to push me in this direction. I-banking especially on CC is something people shoot for because they think it means instant wealth and prestige; and there are many failed i-bankers who have realized along the way that they hate it or are no good at it. Know thyself. Talk to people who really know you and have solid idea of what it would take (if you know someone like this); don't listen as much to people who don't know the field first-hand though. </p>

<p>I met the close college friend of one of my best friends at our mutual friend's wedding. The guy was a very successful i-banker -- and he was at one of his best friend's weddings on a Sunday disappearing half the time to take work calls. And it was always like this reportedly. Some people do like that kind of a life and what comes with it. Make sure you are one of these.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
Back to the issue at hand, basically Sakky's right on in the things he says. I would add that it's my perception (and please correct me if I am wrong, anyone) that i-banking recruiters that recruit at Berkeley greatly favor Haas undergrads vs. folks graduating with other majors. Then after that folks with good records in engineering (demonstrated quant skills) would also be high up on the list.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, I don't know how much of it has to do with Ibanking recruiters actually favoring Haas undergrads. A big part of it simply has to do with the fact that Haas undergrads simply have better access to those recruiters in the first place. For example, Haas undergrads have their own exclusive career services office that is completely separate from the (frankly, rather poorly run) regular career services office that is available to the other students. Hence, as a Haas student, you don't have to compete with everybody else to land an Ibanking interview (which is an invaluable perk when you consider the thousands of Berkeley students who are looking for jobs every year). Haas throws numerous social networking and recruiting events which Ibanking recruiters routinely attend. The other colleges/schools at Berkeley don't really do that. And of course, as a Haas undergrad, you will inevitably get to meet many Haas MBA students, many of whom will have ties to the Ibanking industry and which you can then leverage as part of your network. </p>

<p>The other aspect is self-selection: that those 'smooth operators' who are most likely to do well in Ibanking will disproportionately tend to want to get into Haas. Couple that with the fact that Haas is obviously highly selective and therefore cuts off from admitting anybody whose has the terrible grades that probably would have gotten them dinged from getting an Ibanking interview in the first place. </p>

<p>Add all of that up - the self selection, the rejection of anybody with poor grades, the networking access, the exclusive career office - and all of these contribute to the highly disproportionate success that Haas undergrads enjoy in getting into Ibanking. But that doesn't really have anything to do with Ibanking recruiters actually preferring Haas undergrads as such. </p>

<p>Don't get me wrong. I think there may indeed be some preference extended to Haas students. But we also have to keep those other factors in mind.</p>

13

<p>^ True, but recruiters might prefer Haas, because the school has, as you mentioned, pre-screened their applicants. Hence, done a lot of the leg work.</p>

<p>If I had a stack of applications for a loan, wouldn't I want to have someone already weed out the sub-prime applicants?</p>

14

<p>I think you just answered your first question with your second question. It is indeed a significant risk to have to defer knowing whether you will get into Haas until you are already 2 years into Berkeley. A significant percentage - generally around 40-45% - of those sophomores who apply to Berkeley don't get in.</p>

<p>That may be changing. I recently heard that due to the intense demand for Haas graduates that they will be admitting more. The number of admitted might increase to 750 rather than 400.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
That may be changing. I recently heard that due to the intense demand for Haas graduates that they will be admitting more. The number of admitted might increase to 750 rather than 400.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, if that's true, then that would be a big change indeed.</p>

<p>But I wouldn't make any decisions predicated on such a change happening. After all, what if they don't make that change, and hence you still find yourself not being able to get into Haas and hence forced to major in something you don't really want? </p>

<p>Think of it this way. Berkeley has been talking about expanding the College of Engineering for years in order to get rid of impaction. Yet nothing ever happens and engineering is still as impacted as ever.</p>

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<p>iBanking makes dough, but you have to work loooooonnng hours and when you break it down and look at the wage/hour youll see that typically you arent paid much for the work you do.</p>

17

<p>^^^^^
Well, like those trying to become a rock star or a famous novelist, many people who work these hours are working for the payoff of becoming more senior or partner when the money flows in at such a rate that it starts to look quite lucrative no matter how many hours one works. This guy was at that level, but then, he didn't really know his family all that well or have friends outside of work....</p>

18

<p>then when you finally get into ibanking, you wonder: am i trapped in or trapped out?</p>