My daughter is graduating in the top 4% if her class which gives her automatic admittance to UT Austin. Since we are able to cover the in-state tuition, we were pleased she would have the chance to graduate without any debt.
She attends a GT magnet school for the arts that is ranked in the top ten nationally. She is in the creative writing program, currently the editor of the lit mag, and would like to work in editing and publishing after college. Her teacher has told us for her to have her best shot in that field she really needs to be on the east coast where she can access internships and build regional contacts. After researching schools in the east, my daughter decided Hamilton was her first choice. It is still a reach school for her so she wants to apply ED to increase her chances.
Her teacher doesn’t think it’s a good idea to do ED and is encouraging her to apply to Brown, NYU and Sarah Lawrence. These seem even more expensive than Hamilton (and her chance at Brown is only 9%).
I think Hamilton would be a wonderful fit for her but she would have to take out loans to pay for it. Is the east coast exposure for her future job prospects worth the loans vs a fully funded public education at UT?
Even at full price, Forbes recognized Hamilton as being worth its expense:
And Hamilton certainly represents an excellent choice for your daughter’s academic and career interests:
Regarding the nuances of your own situation, financially conservative contributors to CC will offer their advice. Personally, however, I think the selection of an undergraduate college can shape many future events. Loans, if reasonable in their amount, should not deter a student from pursuing her first-choice college.
How much loans in total? While Hamilton is an excellent school, your daughter’s career choice does not pay well. Most internships are unpaid and jobs pay very little for many years.
The schools she is considering are all excellent, but agree she should limit loans. Students can only take out $27k total in Federal Student Loans for undergrad…any loans beyond that are on the parents either directly, or as a co-signer. Many posters will tell you to not take out more than the $27k in loans, especially for a relatively low paying career, and I agree.
Yes, the answer is…“It all depends.” How much debt are you talking about and how much are you assuming yourself as a parent and how much are you expecting her to “pay back” to you (if any) once she is on her feet and living independently?
Also, give DD some credit for selecting her own ED choice. It takes real dedication to whittle down all the East coast college choices to one LAC.
Thank you all for the feedback. We can cover our EFC; the Hamilton calculation was that the rest would be covered by grant Aid, work study and a $3500 loan from her. She does have some investments from a grandparent set up for her that would help her repay those loans.
At least to me, the Arts are a huge part of what makes life worth living. It is essential to making our world livable that bright people study them at top universities, and then work to keep them active in the world. When people can afford to study them at expensive universities, it is a benefit to all of us. However, I don’t think anyone should be racking up 6-figures worth of debt to study for what could be a low paying career. No one needs to live under that continuous stress.
Just from during the time I got my Bachelors at UT Austin - look at the names of some of the people that were studying there at the exact same time that made it in Hollywood: Matthew McConaughey, Renew Zellweger, Owen Wilson, Jon Hamm, Wes Anderson, Robert Rodriguez…and likely some others I am leaving out. If they can make it in Hollywood from Central Texas, I think your daughter will be able to thrive in the East Coast literary scene from UT Austin.
Since she’d still need to take loans, I wouldn’t go ED and would cast the net wider in the RD round, including LACs with excellent creative writing programs that give merit aid–such as Kenyon and Oberlin. They’re in Ohio, yes, but are well regarded and known in the East Coast (my daughter is at Kenyon, and there are tons of students from the East Coast there). With the renowned literary journal “Kenyon Review” housed at Kenyon, and the Kenyon Review Associates Program available to students (KR Associates Program), your daughter would be very well positioned for a career in publishing. We receive weekly emails from their Center for Career Services with lots of internship opportunities all over the country, including NYC and including publishing. Just something to consider.
@hh4 , my take on your question is not so much financial as developmental - given your daughter’s talent and ambitions in the literary field.
It is very understandable that she would wish to take the next step and go east. Many an imaginative young person from the south or west has done this, feeling their oats and in search of new experiences and personal fulfilment. Minus the talent but full of such aspirations I did something like that once upon a time. However, there’s a downside, I found, for a person with a literary imagination: You lose or at least attenuate your connection with your richest material - the people and the places you have known in growing up and will always understand the best. At the very least there’s a trade-off between that loss and what will be discovered elsewhere. New experiences in a distant place are a benefit but they never quite as fully form you as those built on childhood and early youth. Observing that rich material as a developing young writer is gold. While the trek to the northeast is valuable, it truncates this process. It doesn’t have to be given up in future, of course, but consideration should be given to deferring it. Life is very long, but reimagining one’s home again after leaving it at age 18 isn’t so easy. Writers require long marination in their material.
Go to the University of Texas at Austin, earn a double major, graduate debt-free, then pursue a masters degree or MFA (Masters of Fine Arts) in creative writing at Columbia University or any other university which meets your daughters needs & interests at that time.
One of the most important qualifications for a publishing job ( after connections) is the ability to live and work in NYC on essentially zero salary. Many women who do this are supported for years by their families or trust funds. Realistically, that would be her path as well, so whichever college option that would allow parental funding of the post college living expenses would be best.
Personally,my selfish side wishes that your daughter would attend Kenyon College, Sarah Lawrence, or Hamilton College and report back on a regular basis. But, attending a small, expensive school is not necessary as creative intelligence is a personal trait, not a learned skill.
Creative intelligence is a personal trait, not a learned skill.
Not sure about the necessity of a physical presence in the area for East Coast exposure. (My email goes coast-to-coast.)
Sometimes expensive private colleges can come close to in-state tuition, especially with a combination of merit- and need-based aid. This is why I personally wouldn’t do ED in your situation–it’s better to be able to compare all the offers and weigh multiple options. I don’t know enough about the publishing field, but I’d agree that the geographic proximity to the East Coast isn’t a must (internships can be done over the summer or remotely, especially these days).
@hh4, If I understand you correctly if you daughter were to attend Hamilton she would graduate about $14,000 in debt. To me, that sounds like a manageable debt level, even for someone headed toward an industry with notoriously low starting salaries.
I don’t have inside connections in publishing so can’t dispute the teacher’s opinion that attending school in the east (presumably northeast) is the most direct route to the type of job your daughter aspires to. I would note, however, many that universities and colleges all over the country have superb English and creative writing programs, along with excellent alumni/ae associations, career counselling and help with securing internships and full-time jobs.
For example from Williams career center:
I’m not necessarily recommending Williams as it would be another reach, but I think the links provide good information on the various ways to get started in publishing.
The contrast between UT and Hamilton is severe, not in the quality of education but in culture. For whatever reason, if your daughter prefers the academic environment of a small liberal arts college, then she could certainly expand her choices to some LACs that are similar to Hamilton but offer merit aid, not just need based aid. That would help finance the lean years while she works her way up the publishing ladder.
As noted by @Motherprof, Kenyon and Oberlin could be good choices for merit money. I would also consider the women’s colleges like Smith and Mt. Holyoke.