Hamilton College-the good, the bad, and the ugly

<p>Another school I would add to the reaches would be Davidson. It is in North Carolina, so it may or may not be what she is looking for geographically ... I'm from TX, so I like the marriage of the North and the South that you find in the N. Carolina climate and nature. This school is also friendly and preppy, but more selective than most of the schools on this list ... w/o academic stats, it's hard to tell if this would be too difficult or not ... just beware, it is on a level w/ some of the Ivies. Well, as another Southerner looking @ Northern schools, good luck, and keep us posted!</p>

<p>oh, btw, I am actually Firefly's daughter ... we visited this summer, as she already told y'all about</p>

<p>Not a parent but I do have good friends that attend Hamilton. They are all quite happy with their choice. The student body is indeed friendly, outgoing and intellectual, but really down to earth.</p>

<p>Academically Hamilton is highly regarded, it is also quite expensive. Yes, its REALLY cold, and they see PLENTY of snow. The campus is beautiful and the scenery is breathtaking especially in the fall. However, my friends' biggest complaint is the social scene. You really have to make your own (and they do), but Clinton leaves alot to be desired, which is where the frats & sororities come in to play. They do have a presence at Hamilton, regardless what the literature says. Drinking is a big part of the scene and they've had a few incidents already this year, but the consequences are stiff, immediate 1 year suspensions. I guess like everywhere else, its what you make of it, if you don't want to you don't have to become apart of that scene.</p>

<p>Overall, Hamilton is a great school with much to offer. Good luck!</p>

<p>Did you check out reviews on studentsreview.com?</p>

<p>Hamilton's creative writing program is supposed to be top-notch. I was talking to an author who was getting her masters, and the prof asked where she did her undergrad, because her work was outstanding. She said, "Hamilton" and he said, "Oh, that figures." </p>

<p>Just to clarify, someone above posted that Hamilton is in Hamilton NY. It is not. That's Colgate.</p>

<p>Don't get scared by the snow. It's not that bad, and you can build lots of snowmen and stuff! Keep in mind that students aren't here for January, which is one of the worst months.</p>

<p>Hamilton's also got good scholarships, if you can get one. </p>

<p>And the streaking team!</p>

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I'm looking for some easier schools to get into that also might give out merit money, and was considering Hamilton for this. Does anyone know if they give out many merit scholarships?</p>

<p>Also, are there other schools out there that do (Franklin and Marshall, Grinell, etc.)?</p>

<p>Thanks for the help,
Nickleby</p>

<p>Grinnell has more money than it knows what to do with for merit scholarships. St. Lawrence has some I think. Syracuse too. Actually, probably a lot of Hamilton-esque schools do because they're trying to attract really good students.</p>

<p>Pokey - </p>

<p>SBMom's list is a good guide, although Kenyon is less selective than Hamilton and could go in the match/safety category (relative to Hamilton.) I think Kenyon is a school that would appeal to someone that likes Hamilton. I'd also add Dickinson College to the "Hamilton-like" list. </p>

<p>I think that geography is in your Ds favor at Hamilton, as the school is extremely popular with kids from the suburban NYC area and they get a ton of apps from there. I think the school is more selective for kids from that area, giving a slight edge to kids from outside the state and the northeast in general.</p>

<p>I attended Hamilton for two years back in the late 70's (actually, my frosh year was at the now defunct, Kirkland College, which was an all womens' school built by Hamilton, and located literally across the road (College Hill Road). The two schools were called, "coordinate colleges" back then, in that you could readily take courses at either of the schools, if you were enrolled in one of them. Kirkland existed for less then twenty years before going bankrupt. Hamilton bailed it out and, in the process, absorbed the school. Hamilton, which before this, had been all male, was now co-ed, and thus has remained ever since. (Unfortunately, I suffered a prolonged and incapacitating bout of depression---a lifelong challenge of mine---during my sophmore year, and did not finish. But that actually had little to do with the school, and everything to do with my personal history and brain chemistry.)</p>

<p>Anyway, I highly endorse Hamilton College. It is a wonderful, academically challenging school, in a very beautiful setting. I had lived in Virginia all my life prior to attending, and was not very use to snow. But the snow was one of Hamilton's bonuses in my book. And it did indeed snow a great deal in 1977/1978. I had never seen so much snow in my entire life, nor been able to identify so many different types of snow. But the campus was positively lovely for most of the winter as a result of it. I, like most of the student body, didn't have to concern myself with driving in the stuff, so it was all just play material for me. As you can imagine, Hamiliton was big on winter sports. Cross country skiing, in particular, was VERY popular. There were two very lovely glens on campus, and one---I believe it was called the, Kirkland Glen---was very good for cross country skiing. We also use to take the trays from the dining halls and go "traying" on the hilly portions of campus. There was a winter festival each year that featured snow sculpting competitions, and all sorts of other winter shinanigans. Winter was actually my favorite time of year at Hamilton, because it was like a winter wonderland for most of the season, and I had always lived in a place that received very little snow most years. I still remember walking the campus on clear, cold winters' nights, looking up at the black, black sky sprinkled with a profusion of stars, some of which seemed to change color from ice white, to pink to turquoise. It was so quiet, and peaceful, and profoundly beautiful. One winter we had a two week period during which the ambient air temperature never went above zero. In fact, most of that time, the average day time temp was between -15 and -20 degrees (without the wind chill!). Boy, that was interesting, and I was told, highly unusual. When the temp finally warmed up to 15 degrees, everyone was walking around in sweaters, talking about how warm it felt---LOL! Anyhow, don't let the weather put you off. It was wonderful most of the time.</p>

<p>Yes indeed, Hamilton is isolated (located approx. 6 hrs north of NYC, in the middle of cow and dairy country), and the town of Clinton is very small. But that never seemed to bother most of us. We were very good at making our own fun. However, there were a couple of bars down the hill that students frequented. I heard a few years ago, that Don's Rok (a tiny bar that was a veritable hole in the wall), was still in business. At that time, the minimum drinking age had been lowered to 18, so yes, drinking was very much a part of the culture of Hamilton. I remember the alcohol flowing very freely on the weekends, and I learned to appreciate the taste of beer in the campus pub located in the basement of the main dining hall, playing drinking games with pitchers of Genese Ale. Of course, at that time, I didn't view the drinking on campus to be be excessive---though it often undoubtedly was. I'm sure the elimination of school sponsored fraternities was motivated by the adminisration's desire to curb drinking as the crux of social activity on campus. I was a little saddened to hear that the frats had been banished from campus. Hamilton once had a very active fraternity culture, whereas Kirkland, which at that time was a bashion of bra-burning feminist culture, very purposely shunned the very idea of sororities. Much of weekend social life revolved around frat parties, which anyone could (and did) attend. Psi U had the best parties and the best house. DKE House (where all the jocks pledged) was a close second. The old frat houses have now been converted into upper classman housing, I've heard.</p>

<p>There was a bakery down the hill also, "The Clinton Home Bakery", that baked raisin bread throughout the night once a week. You could smell raisin bread in the air throughout town, and the bakery stayed open all night, selling the stuff. It was a Hamilton tradition to trek the mile or two down the hill (not on foot during the winter, mind you!) to get some. To my memory, it was the best raisin bread I ever tasted. But the Clinton Home Bakery is probably long gone now...sigh...</p>

<p>Hamilton apparently continues to have a very good English Dept, with a strong Creative Writing Program. It was one of the reasons I found Hamilton so attractive. I remember taking a poetry workshop with the poet, David Lehman, a very colorful character who now serves as the series editor for the yearly anthology, "Best American Poetry". Tess Gallagher, a very well regarded poet and short story writer (widow of Raymond Carver, the renown short story writer) was once on the facultry of Kirkland College. We use to have lots of readings on campus from highly regarded novelists and poets. I remember regularly attending these events, and the wine and cheese receptions afterward, feeling very worldly and sophisticated---makes me laugh just thinking back on it. Hamilton was where I discovered literary magazines and small presses, like Paris Review, Grey Wolf Press, Ploughshares, and Kenyon Review. I had poems published in the little campus literary magazine, "Red Weather", which at the time was quite the thrill I assure you! Anyway, sounds like the tradition of Creative Writing at Hamilton continues.</p>

<p>The only negative thing I remember about Hamilton College is the lack of racial, economic, and ethnic diversity on Campus. The vast majority of the students were somewhat well-to-do white kids, many of whom were from New York State---and New York City, in particular. It as very preppy back then too. But even this was interesting in its own way---at least for me, a lower- middle class black girl from the south. I had only met one Jewish girl my entire life prior to attending Hamilton (the daughter of the assistant principal at our high school), and Hamilton was nearly half Jewish. I attended my first Passover Seder at Hamilton. One of my best friends was a ravishing, auburn-haired folk singer, whose parents were survivors of Auschwitz. I remember meeting these warm and dear people, and seeing numbers still tatooed on their forearms. It made quite the impression on me, to see that this aspect of history had indeed been real. I spent spring breaks in the Conneticut home of another of my best friends, a Kooky Jewish girl, with whom there was never a dull moment, and with whom I have never laughed so hard (Suzie Shatz, where are you!?) I met International kids from Cyprus, France, Japan, Hondouras, Turkey, Sweden, Tanzania, Nigeria and Holland. It was very eye opening to realize how little we American kids actually knew of world politics and history. Interaction with many of these kids was something of an education in itself. But I also came to know that I, as one of only 40 other black and/or Latin students on a campus of 1250, also provided a sort of walking, breathing education. Sometimes, it was tedious having to "represent" the entire black race for people, as if we were all cut from the same cloth, and saw things from the exact same perspective. I had some rather interesting discussions with kids who, prior their discussions with me, had never interacted with a black person who was not the maid, chauffer or doorman. But overall, I cherish the memory of my days at Hamilton. I would love to go back for a few hours and just roam the campus. But judging from prior post on this thread, the more things change, the more they stay the same, a thought both, comforting and disconcerting... </p>

<p>P.S. Please forgive any typos and spelling errors. It's 3:00, and I should be scanning my eyelids for pinholes---LOL!</p>

<p>I was a senior in high school visitying Wash DC for Model UN during the blizzard of '78. The city was completely paralyzed by several feet of snow when we arrived by train.</p>

<p>My friends and I got rides from the train station to our hotel on the backs of tractors-- the only conveyance that was able to navigate the streets. There were a bunch of midwestern farmers there for a big rally/march/drive/protest of Carter's farm policies... They were really nice and we had a gas chugging through the deserted, snow-covered, momument-rich streets of Washington DC on the backs of open-air tractors.</p>

<p>poetsheart, thanks for spurring that memory!</p>

<p>Your post is really evocative, especially the part about walking at night. People from cities don't even realize how starry a sky can get without any ambient light to spoil it.</p>

<p>One thing the OP might want to look into, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on her daughter's preferences adn academic interests: Hamilton is a fine school, but my sense is that in the Northeast, at least at private schools and the affluent suburban publics, it plays a role less as a safety for strong students than as a match or safety for decent midrange students. Beyond rankings, there is in my experience some almost intangible difference between Hamilton and schools such as Colgate and Colby. Obviously, there are exceptions to this but I believe it may shape the campus atmosphere somewhat. I visited it with my younger child (who chose not to apply after the visit) about two years ago and found it nice but not as vibrant as Bates, which on paper is not an obvious step up at all. That is just a single family's reaction and clearly other people would react very differently. At the time of our visit, Hamilton had unusually flexible standardized test requirements that maximize the average scores of admitted students (again, not a bad thing, but sort ofe the admissions office version of grade inflation), and I imagine provide the basis for its relatively generous merit aid. Regarding reidm's view of Kenyon, I suspect it is not necessarily less selective than Hamilton and may have a slightly different applicant pool. I think it is important to look beyond a school's admission percentages and try to get a sense of who is applying and who goes there; the relatively high acceptance rate of the University of Chicago is a case in point (I know, apples and oranges, just using it as an example).</p>

<p>Following Mattmom's comments and supplementing my previous post, there are key qualitative differences among almost all of the selective LACs, despite various similarities on paper. I liked Hamilton, but both my nephew and I liked Bates better. For me, it was based more on the energy level and openness of the students we met, for both of us, the course offerings, especially the first-year seminars and May term options. After visits and further investigation, my nephew preferred Kenyon, Colgate and several other LACs to Hamilton and (like Mattmom's younger child) chose not to apply there. If I had been the senior, I would have applied.</p>

<p>Regarding selectivity, about the only useful ranking in the US News guide is the selectivity ranking. They rank Kenyon lower than Hamilton (33 vs 18), and that large a difference is usually borne out by applicants' results.</p>

<p>Pokey,</p>

<p>Hamilton's student newspaper is now on-line and might be a resource for you: <a href="http://spec.hamilton.edu"&gt;http://spec.hamilton.edu&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Our d visited Hamilton twice, once in March when the school was on break and again in November in session. As parents, we liked many elements of Hamilton's program: sophomore seminars, senior capstone projects for everyone (also required at Bates), emphasis on speaking as well as writing, apparent budget to encourage faculty to dine/have coffee with students regularly; the outdoor orientation for first-years also sounded great. </p>

<p>D found the campus beautiful and facilities impressive. She mentioned a sense that social life revolved around alcohol (maybe true virtually everywhere?), commented on beer cups littering the campus when she arrived on a Sunday afternoon. (Also wasn't sure that fraternity/sorority presence was a net positive.) As a northern New Englander, she wasn't worried about snow and cold and figured that Hamilton's comparative isolation was probably a plus for bonding and spirit. Students seemed to her to be happy and friendly, maybe confirming that idea. </p>

<p>Anyway, as far as climate goes, we of the frozen north realize that the problem isn't cold or snow as such, as they are quite manageable and it's often truly spectacular, but rather the LENGTH of the winter and the disagreeable "spring" that follows in March and April!</p>

<p>Hey Pokey, it's Tabby again! I looked on this thread b/c S has a good female friend who is a freshman there. I can ask her mom any particular "mom questions" you may have.</p>

<p>I wanted to thank everyone for their comments on Hamilton. My daughter has been sold on this school for awhile and I now think I am happy with her decision. As far as the party scene, I think almost every college has a group of party goers. I will trust my child to make wise choices. The people and the academics were the attraction here, as well as being up North.</p>

<p>My real concern was the length of the winter. I have informed my daughter that she will not be running around in tank tops at Hamilton except for a few weeks! As we are in the mist of a very warm January (upper 60's-low 70's), I have a hard time thinking about her under several feet of snow. Hey, you only live once; might as well give it a shot!</p>

<p>Winter here lasts usually from mid-november to mid-april. There's usually a fakeout around february when it hits 45 and everyone walks around without jackets and in shorts. However, this year, we haven't had any significant snow at all. Seriously, it's not that bad.</p>

<p>I should post this on the Hamilton forum, but I bet I get a response here first. Does anyone know how Hamilton notifies a student of ED II acceptance? Is it by snail mail, e-mail, or online? We could not find this out from their site.</p>

<p>UPDATE- My daughter was accepted EDII to Hamilton. She is so happy and I now worry if this is the right school for her. I have this gut feeling that with everything that has gone on with the Ward Churchill issue, Hamilton will be seeing some changes. Some will be for the better, but I do worry about the school having a change of hands. If the President is fired, it will take time to find the right person for the job. Will the school sit in limbo, will it lose faculty members, will new faculty want to teach here? I know I need to quit thinking about this so much; if my daughter isn't happy, she can always transfer.</p>

<p>Someone tell me I'm being crazy!</p>

<p>Hey pokey!</p>

<p>First of all, a BIG CONGRATULATIONS to your daughter! I am very happy that she has received her EDII acceptance!</p>

<p>As far as your concern goes: I can certainly understand why you are feeling it, and I don't think you are overreacting to at least consider the repercussions of the Churchill issue. That said, however, I personally can't see that it would lead to significant enough changes throughout the college to make it a very different place than your daughter had the desire to attend in the first place. I personally think that this entire incident will blow over soon and that if any changes result from it, they won't be significant enough to affect the student body in the ways that you might be thinking. I don't think you are crazy...just careful, but I do think everything will be just fine. Again, congratulations to your D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>~berurah</p>

<p>This is a great thread on Hamilton. Poetsheart, if you are still out there, fantastic post.</p>