My son has been accepted and visited all four of these LAC’s, as well as our state flagship college (honors program). The costs are comparable for all five colleges, except Davidson doesn’t require their students to take out loans (they substitute a grant for the ~5K in loans that the other schools package, which adds up to a savings of roughly ~20K over 4 years.) He is interested in computer science and music. The state flagship offers the largest variety of classes in all subjects, but is a huge school with $35,000+ students, heavy Greek life, party culture, strong D1 sports culture (none of which he’s interested in but of course it’s a big place so I’m sure he could find his people there too). He loves the idea of the small classes at the LAC’s, has met with students at each school, sat in on classes when offered, etc., but is still no closer to making a final decision. I suspect he can’t go wrong with any of these choices, but just looking for any insight anyone may have into the subtle differences between these LAC’s. He enjoys the outdoors, is a musician, active in theater, involved in social justice, LGBTQ activism, environmental sustainability, etc… On the one hand, he is eager to attend college in a different part of the country, but he also isn’t sure how he would adjust to the brutal New England winters compared to Davidson’s milder winters. One small factor is that Midd offered winter term admission only (so he would have to start in February instead of September)- not sure if that is the best time for a Southern kid to adjust to a move to VT. Does anyone have any insight to help him narrow down the differences between these schools? He’s made a list of Pros and Cons of each- and is still stuck, even after visiting them all. I know he’s fortunate to have these great options, so I don’t think there is a bad choice here. At this point, I’m about ready to advise him to just draw a name out of a hat!
You’re right - all great options.
I think there are a couple of big things to think through here…
Does he mind the winter start at Midd? It’s typically a decent size cohort and the school has a solid plan for bringing those kids in, but it does make for a different kind of start. Personally, I like Midd enough that I would overlook this but my 18 year old self probably wouldn’t have felt the same.
Colorado 's schedule is really different. I know kids who have loved it, but I also know kids who knew off the bat that it would not be for them or what they planned to study. It favors a certain type of learner.
Davidson is the most conservative of the 4. Does that matter at all?
One thing to do is to take the course catalog at each and try to map out the four years – taking into account requirements of the major and college, study abroad, etc. Sometimes, this will eliminate a school or show its advantages. Hamilton 's open curriculum, for example, might open up a lot.
Congrats on the great acceptances. It would help if you shared your S’s cons in these schools as they are all good choices, yet different.
I agree with the advice above to do a deep dive into the curriculum, also take a look at how many CS profs there are and how easy it is to get the classes one needs to complete their major. This is a problem at my D’s NESCAC according to parents of CS majors.
Hamilton sounds like the best fit based on what you wrote…relatively more musicians, theater, and lgbtq students than the others. I agree Davidson is the most conservative. I don’t think any of these schools are full of social justice activism, but I would say easier to find them at Hamilton or Midd than the other two. All IMO of course. Good luck.
Hmmmm. Not Davidson. I don’t like late start offers, personally, but I think Midd might be where he will find more of his people. Colorado is a neat school, but if he doesn’t like the fast pace at which the block courses are taught, he might get frustrated. It’s regarded as being a bit preppy for the West, so I’m not sure it’s going to have much of the social justice vibe he might like. Hamilton has its open curriculum, also a bit preppy, but plenty of variety in student types, so he could find his people there I think.
He should disregard weather. These schools are all very selective and will have kids from all over the country who handle the winter weather just fine.
He should eliminate two by getting rid of the ones he feels least excited about. He can look at Instagram and Facebook pages and see if he feels any connection to what he sees. Read reviews on Niche, which has honest student feedback.
Opinion
Middlebury. NESCAC in Grandma Moses country. Views of Adirondacks from Bicentennial Hall. Academically notable for economics, languages, international studies, environmental studies. CS program quite good. Underrated for theatre. Vermont an early supporter of civil unions and same-sex marriage. Recent 15% acceptance rate reflects strong national reputation and popularity. Vandalism during early stage of pandemic not inconsistent with an entitled segment among the student body.
Hamilton. Legacy of having been two colleges of complementary characteristics and emphases manifests in enhanced academic, social and architectural dimensions and balance. Academically strong across humanities and fine arts, sciences and math and social sciences. Theatre and studio arts building perhaps most appealing of its type in nation. Rarefied student profile. A writers’ college, for those who wish to enhance this skill. Spatially luxuriant campus, overlooks a valley. Access to Adirondacks. Surrounding area among the safest locations anywhere, with zero reported violent crime in a recent year. Winter snow suitable for the adventurous.
Colorado College. Best college of its type within a day’s drive in any direction. Block Plan. Access to alpine attractions in Colorado and New Mexico. On a daily basis, an urban school. Campus building design in at least one case limited to a dearth of windows to inhibit student distraction. As of several years ago, may have been least socioeconomically diverse liberal arts college in nation. Sufficiently distinctive to make top two or three.
Thanks for all the feedback. That’s a great suggestion to do a deep dive into the curricula at each school- that may be what it comes down to with the LAC’s since they are smaller and have limited offerings in CS.
To throw yet another monkey wrench into the plan- the state university honors program isn’t off the table either. He could live in the Honors community, they will accept his 60 credit hours of dual enrollment credit, which would enable him to meet most of his Gen Ed requirements, go straight into his major, and have time to complete a double major if desired or pursue other interests. Conversely, at any of the LAC’s, he would be starting from scratch, since he doesn’t have AP credit and they won’t accept college courses taken as a high school student.
Pros and cons of each school from his perspective:
Colorado College- Pros: Didn’t seem at all cliquish. Surprisingly, they offer a great transition program for FGLI/POC students. He met several FGLI students and POC at his visit- the College seems to really be making a concerted effort to improve diversity and student support; the first gen students he talked to said no one really knows who has money and who doesn’t, so according to them not having money really isn’t a big deal. He loves the classes he sat in on and likes the weather in COS with 300 days of sunshine as well as snow (but not too much) and he would love to learn to ski! The College actually offers a program to facilitate outdoor recreation opportunities for students who couldn’t otherwise afford it, which is cool.
Cons: far away from home, long flight involving multiple transfers, no friends or family within 1500 miles; most students seemed indifferent at best to the Block Plan, though he thinks he could make the Block plan work even if it’s less than ideal for some subjects (e.g., math)
Middlebury- PRO- This was a reach and would probably be at the top of the list if fall admission. He loves the beautiful campus, the idyllic setting, the town, the idea of living in VT with ready access to the outdoors, etc. Didn’t get to sit in on classes but it’s Midd so we know they are amazing. They have their own Alpine and Nordic ski resorts so of course he could learn to ski here too. Quick train ride to Burlington or other destinations beginning summer 2022.
CONS- far away, several hours flight with multiple transfers, then bus or train to Middlebury. We have no family or friends anywhere nearby. Seems to be the least diverse of all the colleges socioeconomically, racially, etc. Not sure how much support there would be for a lower income kid. Feb start could be a disadvantage in terms of integrating into campus life, getting desired classes. He isn’t sure how he feels about the late start at Middlebury- though he met some students who had been Feb starts and they said they didn’t have a problem integrating into campus life. Lots of distribution requirements, so less flexibility in curriculum, unlikely to be able to double major. Vermont winters will be a major adjustment.
Hamilton- Pros- No distribution requirements so plenty of room to explore multiple interests. The students he met seemed happy, including in his potential majors of interest, though he wasn’t able to sit in on a class. Seems to be an eclectic mix of all different types of people.
Cons- by far the hardest college to travel to- several hours flight, then you have to get to the College from Syracuse, weather can be a major factor in winter, even more snow than Midd though he could certainly learn to XC ski here.
Davidson- Pros- Reasonable driving distance from home (6 hours), best financial aid offer (no loans), all the students seemed very friendly, mild weather during most of the school year
Con- reputation for grade deflation, most sporty vibe of all the LAC (D1 sports), literally every student he met was an athlete; Davidson and our state college are more conservative than any of the other LACs, but having grown up in the South, he’s used to that, so it isn’t necessarily a deal breaker, as I think he would find his people either way. It’s basically an environment a lot like home, so much less opportunity to expand his horizons and experience something new.
I really think there isn’t a bad choice here…he just can’t seem to narrow it down because each college has its pros and cons…no clear winner! Net Cost is roughly the same for all 5 schools (except Davidson which comes out $20K cheaper over 4 years due to no loans)- at each school, he basically gets tuition covered and we pay room, board, and indirect costs.
Also of note, due largely to the pandemic, he has never travelled away from home without the family- so we have no idea how he would adjust to being so far away. Personally, at his age, I couldn’t wait to move as far away from home as I could possibly get! When I ask him how he feels about being far away from home, he says he doesn’t know. So that sort of makes me think that maybe now isn’t the right time for him to go off to college in a different part of the country? Sigh…which brings us back to Davidson and state flagship, since those are the only schools within reasonable driving distance, even if they aren’t necessarily the best fit otherwise.
As a practical matter, this shouldn’t represent a deciding aspect, in my opinion. However, the philosophy behind an open curriculum seems intellectually inviting.
I’d say the college itself is of greater importance than the start date. If Middlebury was your son’s school of strongest interest, then perhaps it should remain his first choice. Regarding selectivity, however, Hamilton’s measurable student profile (i.e., based on high school class standing and standardized scoring), as you would know, registers the highest in your son’s group, and both Hamilton and CC currently show 12% acceptance rates for your son’s class.
If he desires to be closer to home, he may reveal this with his final decision. As a selection criterion, this seems reasonable. If he would like to seek a farther adventure, he might make that clear in the end as well.
This may indicate a desirable adherence to academic standards. Nonetheless, your son may have earned sufficient credentials for appropriate course placement at these schools.
I tend to agree with @merc81 - if midd was the clear first choice and only the winter start is holding him back, choose midd.
Do not choose ease of travel over fit. You are picking 6 days over 180.
I was a spring admit once, in another country. I loved it, we were a tight knit group, got a little more attention than the large fall class, the weather was great from the start. Everyone had done something a little different in the meantime, at home or abroad, and had a story to tell. Our schedules were a bit wonky initially, but after a couple of years, no one could tell or cared who was fall or spring.
If this is the college that draws him most, I’d disregard the start date.
I concur.
Did he meet the music professors for his instrument and have trial lessons? Is there one that fit better than others? Also does the state flagship have a BFA performance program that would prevent him from participating in performance groups?
Will any of the LACs allow advanced placement or subject credit for those college courses taken while in high school, even if they do not give credit for them to the number of courses or credits needed to graduate?
Or will he have to repeat a lot of material that he has already learned, which could be uninteresting compared to learning something new?
The answer to the above for each of the LACs can be significant in terms of defining the initial academic experience at each one.
Don’t make generalized assumption rather check each school’s policy directly is the easiest way to find out. LACs in general don’t accept AP credit is NOT true. More true to some Ivies and top private universities (e.g. MIT).
Example: checkout Middlebury’s AP credit policy: AP Credit Information | Middlebury Offices and Services
I’ve heard students graduate early at sLACs using AP credits. Or you can use the saved credit allowance for easier double majors, or taking additional classes not in your major track that you may be interested.
Note that the OP’s son doesn’t have AP credits.
The OP’s student has college courses taken while in high school, not AP credit. The four LACs in question do not seem to be very friendly to transferring credit for college courses taken while in high school. However, their transfer credit web sites say nothing about whether the student can get advanced placement or subject credit, so the OP should investigate that.
@Kat50 Middlebury was one of my D’s top choices a couple of years ago. It is a special place, but I understand why your son is hesitant about the February start.
My D was admitted for the fall, but before she applied we researched the February start option since it seemed to offer slightly better odds of an acceptance. Ultimately, she opted to apply for fall admission only.
The first thing I recommend is to join the Middlebury parents Facebook group if you haven’t already. There are many posts about being a Feb. You should search “Feb” and “February.” One thing I learned is that at least as recently as last year, Febs aren’t housed together in one or two dorms. They are housed where there are openings, generally rooms that are empty because juniors are studying abroad in the spring. This can make it harder to adjust even though Febs do come to campus early for their own orientation. I think they’ll be given roommates who are Febs, but I would check if this is still the case. Many families post about the great experiences that their Febs have and what their students did in the fall before they started, so it’s an invaluable resource.
We didn’t know any Feb students, but when we visited, our tour guide was a Feb. She loved Midd, but was ambivalent about starting as a Feb. She said that she spent the fall before she started working to make money since she was on financial aid. She felt that most of the other Febs were full pay students many of whom had spent the fall traveling, doing unpaid internships and other activities that she couldn’t afford. She said that she thought that if she had started in the fall, she wouldn’t have felt as self-conscious and out-of-place because there would have been more students from a diversity of backgrounds.
It sounds like Midd is a great fit for your son, but I would have him reach out to admissions to speak with current Febs if he hasn’t already. Best of luck to you and your son.
Doesn’t Middlebury’s policy say only 2 AP credits count as credit?
He did have a trial lesson at the state flagship, where he auditioned and was admitted to the music performance major and earned a (small) music scholarship. He met with music faculty and they are fine with the double major with computer science.
He didn’t really have the opportunity to connect with the music faculty at any of the LAC’s, though. Somehow, we got the impression that requesting trial lessons wasn’t encouraged at the small LAC’s, since none of them mentioned the option on their website. Hmm, now I’m wondering if it might be appropriate for him to request a Zoom lesson this week? Worst they could do is say “no” I guess.
State U will accept 60 credits. Will that enable him to graduate early? Or do a combined bachelor’s/master’s program? If so, it represents a substantial savings.
Hamilton has a major on Digital Arts, which would allow him to combine his interests in computer science and music. I’m not saying he should major in this, but it’s there to explore and to choose as a major if he wants it. I don’t see anything similar at the other 3 colleges, so by choosing one of them he effectively eliminates Digital Arts as an option. Hamilton’s open curriculum and their general flexibility seem best suited to developing an interesting combination in some way of his two major areas of interest.
Just my 2 cents.
If Midd is his first choice, excepting the late start, why not contact the admissions rep and ask about possibility of fall start? Can’t hurt to ask. Maybe their deposits for fall are a little less than they anticipated. Or maybe they’d find a way to make it happen.
I grew up in year round warm weather on a beach and went to a NE LAC that took two flights and a bus to get to. It was definitely an adjustment weatherwise but ultimately was a great adventure!