Hands-On Engineering Programs

Parents Forum
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<p>The NY Time article is slightly better. When you compare it to the WSJ article you see them whining in the WSJ about how the classes should be made more hands on and interesting rather that theory, but what class was it the ended the girl’s STEM career? A hands-on lab with practical application. There is a lot of whining in that WSJ article and NO solutions. They don’t even have the guts to come right out and say if you are really good at math consider getting a business degree, the classes are easier and the pay is better. And they call the impressives dude’s first work experience tedious! Well heck yes it was tedious. They don’t give the co-op intern the cool stuff. What? Did you think you were going to be running the airport at 25? (see other WSJ article about kids coming home.)</p>

<p>And @ katlianmom Any good engineering professor has a consulting gig over the summer and a research grant during the year. That isn’t where the problem is coming from. The problem is coming in the area of Prep. It is coming from elementary school teachers who don’t put enough emphasis on math in the years of fractions and decimals. And middle and high school requirements that let kids graduate with less that one math class every year. I don’t care if they have to spread Algebra I over 9th and 10th grade and Algebra II over 11th and 12th grade or invent a class that includes balancing a checkbook. Everybody should be taking a minimum of one math class and one science class per year. PERIOD. It is not a full education if it doesn’t include math.</p>

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<p>Now iamhere has a good article. This one isn’t fluff with no focus and poorly defined terms. It is focused on solutions. Thanks so much for posting this!</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>I think that the lab course was “the straw that broke the camel’s back”. The student was getting Bs and Cs in STEM and As when she changed. The article quoted the student in believing that she was not well prepared which is a point of yours.</p></li>
<li><p>STEM professors do not usually get a consulting gig over the summer. They are busy doing research, writing papers, reviewing manuscripts, and most importantly, trying to get grants to support their graduate and undergraduate students, postdocs, and the continuation of their research so they can publish. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>The article on Binghamton was good. Let’s hope that more schools can follow their example. “Watson’s six-year graduation rate currently ranges between 70 and 80 percent” the 6 year part would be a concern for some parents and students</p>

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<p>in case anyone is interested in Binghamton as a result of the article, I’ll add that it is a state university with very affordable OOS tuition (was named a best buy for OOS). currently about 25% of the total undergraduate enrollment is OOS or international. my understanding is they have been actively trying to increase their OOS representation over the last few years.</p>

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<p>krug – from what i’ve seen, it is not uncommon for schools to cite their 6 year graduation rate, but it doesn’t mean it typically takes 6 years to graduate. you’d have to compare the 4 year vs. 6 year figures, the former of which is not in the article.</p>

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<p>Take a look at Engineering First at Northwestern.</p>

<p>There are hands-on real world projects for real clients for ALL freshmen to work on; the courses are integrated with linear algebra, mechanics (physics), differential equations, and computer programming so you apply them all at the same time to cases (instead of having them taught as separate courses from separate departments (math, comp sci, physcis) and asking students to do bunch of short math/physics problems that seem detached from real world applications). </p>

<p>[Engineering</a> First ® Program: McCormick School of Engineering at Northwestern](<a href=“Undergraduate Study | Academics | Northwestern Engineering”>Undergraduate Study | Academics | Northwestern Engineering)</p>

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<p>I forgot to mention Northwestern has one of the oldest and most well-established engineering CO-OP in the nation. The CO-OP is a 5-yr program with alternating terms and students can graduate with 1 year and a half of working experience (6 quarters). That doesn’t even include the first summer (can be used for an internship).</p>

<p><a href=“Programs Overview | Engineering Career Development | Northwestern Engineering”>Programs Overview | Engineering Career Development | Northwestern Engineering;

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<p>MomfromKC,
“Any good engineering professor has a consulting gig over the summer and a research grant during the year. That isn’t where the problem is coming from.”</p>

<p>That was the problem at the university I worked at. Engineering professor salaries topped out at around $120K, which was mid-manager salaries at the places they’d consult. Eventually, many of them left. During boom years, it was hard getting ANY qualified engineers to teach because academia was the last place many of them wanted to be. Which is why there are so many foreign STEM TAs and instructors in American universities. Americans would rather go for the big bucks.</p>

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<p>^ That seems a big illogical, at least if it’s a research university. I mean you can easily take on consulting on the side while you have the job security and flexible hours of teaching just 3-4 courses per year. </p>

<p>Most of the engineerng fauclty I know are not foreigners, and the love research, they never went into it for the money anyways. Who gets a PhD for the money? Academic and industry careers are apples and oranges. </p>

<p>It also doesn’t really add up in terms of supply and demand. We have the same problem in business schools so the salaries for faculty are much higher to meet the pressure of the external market-- why would that not also be the case for engineering faculty if the outside market was so lucrative? </p>

<p>Maybe different in a more teaching oriented school or for adjuncts. That makes much more sense.</p>

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<p>No, I was talking about a research university. I’m surprised this is news to you. It’s a subject discussed often on CC. Fact is, Americans are staying away from graduate work in engineering (foreign nationals account for 50% of master’s degrees and 70% of Ph.D. degrees in electrical and electronic engineering) which means there are fewer of them available to teach at the university level.</p>

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<p>Back to the OP’s D. Anyone else have suggestions for this HS sophomore to get her prepared for any college engineering program? No hands on program is useful unless she has the credentials to get accepted to the college where such program is located. What can this parent do to get his D academically in shape? Where are there programs for HS students to get exposure to engineering to spark their interest? How can she learn to manage her time? Picking a program may be vastly different for her in two years’ time.</p>

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<p>There are many engineering summer programs for high schoolers offered through universities that feature hands-on projects. Below are just a few:</p>

<p>[Johns</a> Hopkins Engineering Innovation: A Summer Program for High School Students](<a href=“http://engineering-innovation.jhu.edu/program-description/]Johns”>http://engineering-innovation.jhu.edu/program-description/)</p>

<p>[Women</a> & Minorities in Engineering Program - College of Engineering](<a href=“http://www.engr.colostate.edu/students/wmep/]Women”>http://www.engr.colostate.edu/students/wmep/)</p>

<p>[Welcome</a> to the Introduction to Engineering Program at Notre Dame](<a href=“http://www.nd.edu/~iep/]Welcome”>Welcome to the Introduction to Engineering Program at Notre Dame)</p>

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<p>When my son looked at Olin when it first started, it was harder to get into than MIT. Don’t know if that is still true. At that time, it had free tuition for all, which may not be true anymore either.</p>

<p>We were impressed by UMass Lowell.</p>

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<p>I’ve visited Olin, and it has a very innovative, project based approach to engineering.</p>

<p>For example, first years are assigned a project where they have to build toys that move through water.</p>

<p>One is expected to learn the necessary math and science to complete the project work.</p>

<p>It is a highly selective school, and I am certain students who gain admittance have top marks in high school in the most demanding science and math classes.</p>

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<p>Due to the economic blows to their rather new endowment, Olin now charges half tuition (plus room/board). But it remains highly selective. Students still turn down MIT, Mudd, ivyies, etc to attend Olin. </p>

<p>Olin is a great choice for high-stats kids looking for a innovative, project based approach at a tiny engineering-centric college. Like fendrock says, their prep would need to include the most demanding science and math classes in hs.</p>

<p>Lots of other schools do offer valuable project classes with group projects (very “real world”). It’s a good thing to ask about at college visits.</p>

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<p>Thought I’d comment on a bunch of posts here. No disrespect intended. </p>

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<p>This is definitely not true. Good professors earn plenty through private consulting on top of their permanent tenured job, and faculty jobs are among the most difficult to get, and the most difficult to do. Most junior profs work 80+ hours per week before tenure, and most senior profs I know work 50-60 hours after tenure because their research groups are run like businesses and they must keep generating grants to keep the research going. </p>

<p>

I don’t buy it. Most engineering firms who are designing new products hire on talent. Often H1B students have it and are willing to do engineering work. I agree that firms treading water looking to maintain existing products often hire H1B students on price, but those are commodity jobs anyway that they could just as soon ship overseas entirely. Even H1B students with talent don’t want those. Many of those H1B students with talent become permanent residents, entrepreneurs that create jobs, and are a net plus to our economy. </p>

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I did and I question whether this is a good thing. It’s 4 whole classes. Seems like a waste of precious time. Classes are a scarce resource. I don’t think future chemical or electrical engineers need to study mechanical engineering topics and many people are drawn to a particular type of engineering because they like the science underlying the engineering. I think it’s fine for those who want to sample different engineering disciplines, but delays getting down to business. </p>

<p>Given how many requirements there are in engineering discipline to get a degree, I question whether these type of “engineering first” programs are a good thing at all. I know Brown had that when I was in HS and it turned me right off. I wanted to be an Electrical Engineer not an Engineer. If I knew which engineering, I would have preferred to dive right in and get more and deeper electives on the back end. As an employer, I also like to see more and deeper electives on the back end too. </p>

<h2>In all of my 25+ years as an EE, I’ve never had to use MechE concepts. </h2>

<h2>Co-ops are the way to get hands on. I think they are terrific. Most schools offer them.</h2>

<h2>Not sure about Olin. I think the experiment is still running, and I haven’t been overly impressed with the results. These were the cream of the crop students going in. IMHO, the jury is still out on how well their graduates fare. </h2>

<h2>Not a huge fan of UMASS Lowell. The standard of excellence isn’t that high there. </h2>

<h2>In general, for those that can handle it, I recommend the top schools, including Harvey Mudd. For those that need more nurturing, places like WPI and Rose Hulman seem like the ticket. Northeastern is an excellent coop school. </h2>

<p>I think the solution to the issues raised by the NYT and WSJ is to better prepare our kids in math. Math needs to be correctly viewed as the most important subject by a lot, not just one of many subjects.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to mention that Olin has a graduating class of a mere 300 or so students, and they have had ten graduating classes to date. </p>

<p>So there is not really a big sample to test in terms of how graduates fare.</p>

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<p>fendrock, I agree, the sample is too small, but buyer beware.</p>

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<p>If the OP is interested in knowing more about Olin, then I would suggest she contact Flmathmom on cc, whose S is currently a freshman there and seems to love it.</p>

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<p>Both Drexel and Stevens have well established coop programs. Rowan is supposed to be very hands on and is a more up coming school. RPI also does coop in the Jr/Sr year.</p>