Took my S last week to visit NU, BU and WPI in MA.
Was pretty impressed that one can really get lots of hands on experience potentially at any of these schools.
That said, seems very competitive to do so at NU and BU.
While NU has an organized coop program, there is competition to get the good ones.
I know a student there now, who has friends who got none so far.
Know a student at BU Eng that is working on a very impressive sounding projects with a very
large company while a student.
Seems the difference is the requirement at WPI and their “project centers”.
They seem setup to make sure every student gets some hands on experience.
Maybe not paid as with an NU coop, but experience regardless.
I was not so impressed at the pay for the NU coops, I made almost as much in my internship
in the 1980s as NU students make today in Eng coops. Granted I knew at the time it was high
for an internship, but the point is, experience is what counts at this age, not the money.
I think you can get experience at all 3 schools but might have to hustle more to get it at BU/NU,
or at most schools vs WPI. For me, the location in Boston was a huge advantage in what became
my career. Easier access to interview for intern opportunities.
Although we never visited WPI, I have the same positive impression from reading about it during our college research days.
From what I’ve heard, NU co-op salary increases as the students progress to 2nd co-op and 3rd (optional). When we did the math a few years ago, I figured it was enough to pay for Boston apartment/food (on-campus which is allowed if space or off campus), but not much left over for the bank.
The BU non-campus did not appealing to our kids, so we never visited it. NU is somewhat “campus-y” (for a city school), at least at the core areas. The transportation options from NU to co-op are terrific, and I assume similar for BU.
Yes, I imagine that helps a lot of people. Done badly, however, it comes off as a wee bit gimmicky because it ends up looking like something out of kindergarten.
Nevertheless, most people are not meant to think abstractly most of the time, so unless the school has an academic bend, an emphasis on the practical is probably best.
Your experience at Northeastern was very different from my daughter’s. She’s a 4th year computer engineering major. Getting ready for to apply for her 3rd coop. In engineering, just about all the students get decent coops. Some won’t look outside of Boston/Cambridge, which puts them at a disadvantage. But if you follow the coop adviser’s directions, it’s not that difficult to get a meaningful engineering job. Not sure what you expected for salaries - they run a wide range, from around $14/hour to over $35/hour. Of course the highest paying go to more experienced students. For my D, we looked at both BU and NEU. My son doesn’t want to be in the city, so WPI is high on his list.
This is my 2 cents as Engineering is not the only field that has the “hands on versus theory” argument.
I am a nurse trained in a bachelor’s program. We used to moan how we did not have enough “hands on” as the associate degree programs and we felt inferior when we went to do our hospital rotations. The staff at the hospitals contributed to our feeling inferior. One actually said to me that B.S stands for bullsh*t. Nice…
Our instructors endlessly told us, “don’t worry” hands on skills can be learned, it is theory you will not go back to learn later.
For me, they were right. After working for a year or so, I was the strongest clinical nurse because I knew pathophysiology clearly. I could interact with doctors at a different level that peers from AA programs and my hands on skills became strong because I could visualize what I was doing anatomically instead of just inserting tubes from practice.
Hands on can be learned. Theory is why you go to college.
In principle, that is spot-on; I know many engineers who could use machinery better than their technicians who had been at it for a decade because they knew how and why the machinery did what it did. But the problem is that there is a sizable portion of any workforce that really can’t see that far ahead and feels that if they don’t see it hands-on, that they are just wasting their time, and as a result they will do a poor job of learning the theory.
Ideally the two groups should be separated, but in the modern US the education system has sought to consolidate career paths into one degree (i.e. everyone should go through the university path rather than some into vocational school others to university). I think that having multiple career paths is a better idea, because there is a lot of work that doesn’t necessarily need to be done with any particular knowledge of the theory, and over-qualification is an issue.
Not to say it doesn’t work in reverse as well - knowing the “how” makes it much, much easier to learn the “why.” But on-the-job isn’t where you go to learn the theory. So if you can, learn it in school, but I’ve seen that too many people just aren’t good at that.
The emphasized (for this discussion) parts above indicate that both “theory” (engineering sciences) and “hands-on” (engineering design, including major design experience) components are important parts of an engineering curriculum.
Not exactly because BSN and AA nurses are paid the same and perform the same job. AA nurses cannot progress on to alternative RN roles without getting a bachelors first nor would an AA nurse be encouraged to become an Head nurse unless she got her BSN first.
An LVN is comparable to an Engineering Tech.
My reason for presenting the importance of theory is not that any program should be all theory, that would be silly @ smokinact. I was responding to the idea that hands on programs are better than those that are more theory oriented because hands on is a better way to learn. Its not.
Applied theory is what you want students to come away with so any mix of both will do. It all depends on the learner.
For nursing, since a BSN involves twice as much course work as an ADN, why wouldn’t a BSN include everything that an ADN includes, plus more (perhaps extra theory and extra practice)?
It does but the mindset is different. AA nurses are taught to think as a bedside nurse. They spend more time learning hands on skills because that is where their expertise will stop.
BSN nurse are taught to think big picture and to be policy changers. A BSN nurse thinks about how to shape healthcare and patient care. BSN nurses do research. I did a research project in my program 35 years ago. Holistic healthcare was big back then, I had course it that. BSN nurse do more rotations because each semester they move to another patient group e.g. pediatrics, maternity. So they have more varied experiences than an AA nurse.
It simply is broader. A BSN program is not just an extended AA program.
Nursing seems to be a profession that has evolved over time, primarily for for women (although more men seem to be going in that direction). It has always been important in terms of healthcare but seems to have gotten more theory based as time has gone by (with hierarchy involved in that- nursing assistant, RN, BSN, nurse practitioner, etc.). My maternal grandmother graduated from nursing school in 1921. That was probably pretty typical in the 20’s.
Sevmom, I think Nursing has for the same reason Medicine has. In the good old days you went to your family doctor and he mostly took care of everything. It was a big deal to go to a specialist. Now, the amount of medical knowledge is so great that you have to go to a specialist to be seen by someone who knows the most about your particular problem.
In engineering, I imagine it too has gone through changes as knowledge grew. My son is an ME major and took classes in CAD and Matlab. I imagine before computers, everything was hand drawn and calculated with calculators. The materials have gotten lighter so building things has changed.
But all people still need to learn how to think! Analyze, process and produce solutions. I guess that is why so many shy away from Engineering because you gotta want engage your brain to do it.
So back to theory You gotta understand how to apply what you learn to all type of situations, not just the ones you have put your hands to.
Lakemom, Yes, medicine in general has changed. H’s maternal grandfather was a physician. Practiced into the 1940’s. Making house visits (and taking what people could offer as payment- my MIL said he once was given a chicken ) as well as working in a hospital, He got extra gas rations during the war so he could make visits. Healthcare is a whole new world , even within the last couple of generations.
My H is an engineer, as was his father. I know you do need to know theory, that’s for sure. But once you get into the real working world, I agree that you also need to know how to apply that theory, work with other people and get the job done.
“Hands on” can come in many ways. Capstone projects are one form. WPI basically has a junior and a senior capstone project, plus an opportunity to do a project as a freshman too. All schools have clubs like Cube Sat and SAE. That’s another form. Cal Poly has a senior design project and clubs, but all of their engineering classes have labs too. There are more than 80 dedicated engineering lab facilities. Not many schools have a vibrations and rotational dynamics laboratory. Poly does. So, there are many different ways to get your hands dirty.
That’s true about all the engineering labs at many schools. Virginia Tech has something with vibrations also but it is called “vibrations and acoustics laboratories.” http://www.eng.vt.edu/research/institutes
You gotta understand how to apply what you learn to all type of situations, not just the ones you have put your hands to.