<p>Hey all,
So I was recently admitted as a transfer to Penn and Brown and am having a very hard time deciding. Here’s what I think so far. Any input would be much appreciated.</p>
<p>Brown:</p>
<p>Pros:</p>
<p>-Providence
-friendly, uncompetitive, cooperative atmosphere (A/B/C/NC grading system)
-2nd happiest college in the country
-sports team I would play on (varsity)
-absence of core curriculum
-potential to petition for ba+ma program (though somewhat difficult to get clearance for)</p>
<p>Cons:</p>
<p>-lots of hipsters
-big drinking/weed scene (not sure if this is more or less than Penn)
-potentially less serious academic environment (e.g. taking classes P/F and not doing their work because they only have to pass)</p>
<p>Penn:</p>
<p>Pros:
-philly is the most livable city in america (though it doesn’t have that nice feel that providence does)
-aka more options than providence because your in a real city
-very competitive sports team (I might or might not make varsity)
-also have b.a.+m.a. option (fairly difficult to get though)
-dual degree option (i.e. get a b.a. from the college and a b.s. from wharton)
-slightly more prestigious
-“social” ivy</p>
<p>Cons:
-campus felt more impersonal than brown (though I remember thinking “this place is badass” on my tour)
-bigger school as a whole (although both are universities, penn has the medical school, the nursing school, and wharton which make it significantly bigger than brown)</p>
<p>Also, I’m interested in double majoring in two of the following three subjects: math/english/philosophy. Any idea how strong Brown and Penn are in those? That would definitely inform my decision more.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your help,
Claymangs</p>
<p>-lots of hipsters This is a rumour...they ain't as prevalent as you think
-big drinking/weed scene (not sure if this is more or less than Penn) ** Penn is a HUUUGE drinking school. No pressure to do substances at Brown anyway **
-potentially less serious academic environment (e.g. taking classes P/F and not doing their work because they only have to pass) ** Bleagh, no way. Can't wait till Jason sees this :D **</p>
<p>Congratulations on being accepted to both great schools. I know you have a tough decision to make. If there's any consolation, here's rankings with Brown/Penn in Math/English/Philosophy.</p>
<p>NRC</a> Rankings in Each of 41 Areas</p>
<ol>
<li><p>the NRC rankings having nothing to do with undergraduate study</p></li>
<li><p>most people think brown is more presitgious than penn by a large margin</p></li>
</ol>
<ul>
<li>given the choice between brown and penn, two thirds of students pick brown (as reported in the New York Times)
The</a> New York Times > Week in Review > Image > Collegiate Matchups: Predicting Student Choices</li>
</ul>
<p>-the Consus Group has compiled all existing rankings into a common one, listing brown 8th and penn 11th
The</a> Consus Group: Composite College and University Rankings (2007) : The Consus Group Rankings</p>
<ul>
<li>brown is, and always has been, more selective and difficult to get into than penn
Ivy</a> League College Admissions Facts and Statistics</li>
</ul>
<p>how reliable is the Consus group in terms of rankings? I mean, how well-respected are those rankings because USNWR has a fairly different set of rankings and it seems quoted much more. At any rate, the most telling one is the number of students who chose to attend Brown over Penn; that's pretty astonishing that 2/3 chose Brown. I had no idea.</p>
<p>Some of your concerns about the pass/fail and open curriculum and what kind of academic environment that does or does not create are addressed in this thread:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/brown-university/385841-brown-curriculum-university-college-explained.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/brown-university/385841-brown-curriculum-university-college-explained.html</a></p>
<p>Some good information for you to know:
An AB in Math is 10 courses. An AB in Philosophy is 8 courses. Additionally, the 100 level logic course taught in philosophy can double count so these two areas are actually quite compatible for double concentrating. I strongly suggest you read the Concentration Requirements of any course of study your considering at both schools to see the courses required and offered and determine where your interests best match up with the required/available coursework.</p>
<p>BA MA is possible at Brown, but almost definitely not if double majoring and it's also quite difficult to do in four years.</p>
<p>Don't forget that we have Boston an hour train ride away-- that makes Providence far more attractive, IMO. Anything you'd need or want on a daily basis is easily accessible in Providence. After three years I've still not exploited all it has to offer. For special, bigger occasions or even a change of scenery Boston is extremely accessible.</p>
<p>Good luck on your decision.</p>
<p>I was similarly wondering the differences between both schools. I am currently committed to Penn, but I am waiting to hear back from the waitlist at Brown. In case I get into Brown, I wanted to know its advantages. Here were some questions I had concerning the two:</p>
<p>Between the two schools, does Brown's smaller undergraduate size provide it with any advantages over Penn? (academic and social)</p>
<p>Also, are there any rankings which place Brown higher for science dept.'s, specifically biology/neuroscience? (for my parents, who think that Penn's higher USNWR rankings make it a better school...i know, i don't like that either)</p>
<p>I know that the rankings place Brown as one of the happiest campuses, so do any of you current Brown students SENSE any big difference in the level of "happiness" in the atmosphere between Brown and other schools? If so, how?</p>
<p>Does Providence's smaller size, when compared to Philly, limit its community service options for undergraduates?</p>
<p>This is kind of a stupid question concerning prestige, but I know that Brown has a higher cross-admit rate with Penn. So, just in your personal experiences, do regular people around you generally view Brown in higher regard than Penn?</p>
<p>Is it possible to find any socially conservative (not as drinking/doing drug types) at Brown? I realize that there is still political diversity, but I was wondering whether Brown is an accomodating environment to people who don't drink or do drugs at all. </p>
<p>Thanks for any help!</p>
<p>Brown has arguably the best undergrad neuroscience program in the nation. And from what I've read on these boards, 'accommodating' would be a perfect word to use to describe Brunonians.</p>
<p>what do brown students think about UPenn's "one university policy," allowing students to take classes beyond the college, eg wharton, annenberg communication, law, dental, etc?</p>
<p>also, what is the social life for a JUNIOR transfer at UPenn? is there a sense of community among transfers (i know they don't live together), and since the school is heavily greek oriented, would it be hard to find a social and outgoing niche without going greek?</p>
<p>I mean at Brown you have access to anything we have as a university as well-- we run more so on the one university than just about anyone. There is literally no paper work to file to take most graduate classes. We just don't have the professional schools that Penn does. But I've taken graduate course and a good chunk of my course work will be grad level by the time I leave.</p>
<p>I have a friend who's 3 years in and has taken more graduate level stuff than undergraduate.</p>
<p>ModestMelody,
First off, thanks for answering all these questions. What does taking grad courses do for you? Is it to get a jump start on grad school or purely out of interest or because it'll fulfill major requirements for honors or what?
Thanks in advance,
Claymangs</p>
<p>Mostly my own interest and depending on the field it's also a jump start in grad school (sometimes they'll take the courses, actually). For me, since Organic chemistry has a pretty set graduate curriculum that most follow it's a good bit of jump start so that if I want to get a chemistry PhD the course work, at least year one at this point, should be fairly easy. It's the kind of material that the more times you do it the better you are at it any way-- practice, and reading tons of literature, makes perfect. For other friends they just were ready for more challenging classes due to particularly strong high school backgrounds that allowed them to plow through the curriculum for their major (this happens in math more than other areas).</p>
<p>Grad classes will certain satisfy concentration requirements for electives in a subject within either the actual concentration or as a general area elective that's required.</p>
<p>Don't forget that many upper level undergraduate courses have grad students in them as well. Very frequently concentrators will be mixed with graduate students seeking more breadth within their area of study by taking higher level courses outside their direct comfort zone-- i.e. organic chemist taking high level biochem or American history grad student taking an educational reform history course.</p>
<p>one of the principle differences between penn and brown is that penn is more pre-professional and brown is more academic. </p>
<p>while it may make sense to take graduate courses in preparation for a PhD, i personally don't believe there is much value added in taking say, a business or law class during undergraduate study. your time in college is extremely valuable and you want to use it efficiently. why take a course that doesn't add to your academic preparation, is likely not designed for your level of knowledge, and you will most likely take again in a few years when you progress in your studies?</p>
<p>The issue is, dcircle, many people just don't get how much enrichment can be gained from your college experience when you stop aligning yourself solely with the goal of "what's next".</p>
<p>I wish that colleges would stop advertising the information that parents and students who aren't in college yet are looking to hear and started to actually give the information that's important and dispel nonsense like "Our business degree will be more valuable if you want to work in business!" Then students find out several years later that they could be hired in "business" having done just about anything and not be at a disadvantage and not have to take courses they didn't want to to reach their goal. ::sigh:: /rant</p>
<p>Grad classes I think can be very valuable if you're after more challenging course work than the undergraduate curriculum in your concentration is offering. Otherwise, it's a total waste of time and you should be engaging in a more liberal arts education which will serve you far more in the end.</p>
<p>agreed. well said.</p>