<p>I couldn’t agree more…I think the grinds should be a step below the truly bright.
Our sal is a grind…she stresses more than anyone I know and is a grade grubber
I’m lazy and i’m 3rd…and I do better on most tests than her(I just didn’t do as many APs)
grinds drive me nuts </p>
<p>I absolutely disagree. There are academic grinds out there that are naturally gifted. You can’t categorize them only as grinds. If your sal has any reason to stress, it’s that she’s taking alot of AP’s and you’re not because you’re not taking as many. Some people like to challenge themselves with AP classes but that doesn’t entitle you to categorize them as grinds. What was her SAT score?</p>
9 times out of 10 I would take the natural student. Laziness in school is often brought about by the school environment itself, not by any negative characteristics of the student in question, and only in rare cases will you find a “smart but lazy” student who is lazy enough to not get anywhere after high school.</p>
<p>And on the discussion stemming from post #2, I think that skills such as pattern recognition are the products of genetics and thus the more gifted students will be able to learn things much faster. When it comes to subjects such as history, for example, I find that I remember a lot more than my friends do because I am able to process and analyze the information when I receive it the first time. Conversely, I’m only average in my Latin class when it comes to straight-up vocab because that’s just pure memorization (unless there are derivatives).</p>
<p>In response to applicannot’s post I’d fit with the bright category. I don’t think i’m naturally gifted; I actually need to work hard to gain that. Some of my friends on the other hand, are naturally gifted but they’re also quite lazy. I don’t know for a fact if some correlation exists, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was one.</p>
<p>i mean some people are just born with it.
i consider myself quite lucky, because i pull satisfactory grades without doing much.
(not saying my grades are fantastic or anything, but they’re relatively good.1st in the class. )</p>
<p>I don’t do any work at home; i do them during break, lunch and free periods
(that is, unless i have a huge paper due, in which case i wake up at 4~5 AM the day it is due and work till 7, plus lunch time. This is the only exceptions)
whenever i have a test, I study on the way to school on the bus, which gives me about 40 mn. (same goes for the finals. No exceptions) </p>
<p>As I don’t take any notes in class, i spend this time on the bus skimming through the textbooks, or reading other people’s notes if they have some. On the tests i usually do better than others who have studied for several days and nights.
For English, I read sparknotes the break before the quiz. I don’t touch the actual book. </p>
<p>i know this is a bad habit and that im gonna suffer in college. I hate myself for the lack of motivation and effort (i just cant sit on a desk for more than 30mn, if there’s no computer). </p>
<p>Pure hardwork could get you above average grades, say an A-,(~93%) but without natural intelligence, and although this might sound harsh, an A+ (98%~ at our school) in AP classes, especially in maths or physics, (we don’t have extra credits) is inachievable
even with tremendous effort.</p>
<p>Same goes for the SAT. There is only so much studying can do for you. Scores higher than, let’s say, 2200, don’t come from pure work.</p>
<p>I think with the exceptions of a FEW people (take the kid who discovered negative numbers for himself at age three and co.), mostly everyone is on the same level of genetic intellectual ability. Seriously though, it drives me crazy when people in the Gifted program with no more than 140 IQs self-importantly and smugly explain the miracles of their genius to bright 130-ish IQ kids in awe of them.</p>
<p>What is seriously the difference? Next to none. Nobody cares if you could solve that one negative-USAMO-difficulty geometry problem ten minutes faster than your class. There’s kids out there (not you) with REAL talent, REAL intelligence. You being slightly ahead of average is laughable compared to them. We think of ourselves as being so naturally gifted, and genetically superior. Maybe some people here are lol. But that’s really, really, really low standards. It’s kind of sad. You think it’s amazing you understood the principles of calculus right away? Well, there’s probably six-year-olds out there who already knew it. You to “grinds”=them to you.</p>
<p>I have this really cynical theory that most “smart” people are actually pathetic. It’s not that everyone else is normal…maybe they’re just really, really, really dumb.</p>
<p>Actually, I’m sorry. I don’t want to delete all the stuff I already wrote because it took me a lot of irritation to get it down, but it’s to be disregarded. lol I had a bad experience with an extremely arrogant self-proclaimed smart person today who was musing on how and why he could be so great when everyone else was so average. It irked me to the brink of insanity, especially since he fails basically every test of intelligence you can find (SATs, PSAT, grades, tests) under the pretext that he “really doesn’t care” and “never tries”. Annoyed the heck out of me lol</p>
<p>But it’s all good now.
(deep breath, end rant, chills) :)</p>
<p>To abcbac:
I think you are assuming i only take normal / honors classes?
I am a full IB diploma candidate, with maths, physics (or french, undecided) and business in higher levels</p>
<p>To randomazn14, if he was possibly referring to people like me in his post:
Personally, I myself find this whole thing about aptitude and innate ability UNFAIR
But it is true. Some people are more privileged.
You need to remember one thing though. WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT ACADEMICS</p>
<p>Everyone is good at something. Academic record is only a very small part of you, and although it is usually the deciding factor for admission in most colleges (yes, it is. For at least 95% of the colleges.), many academic institutions/employers don’t only look at grades.</p>
<p>I am not bragging or anything, i was just using myself as an example to prove my point. I have never been proud of my performance, mainly because i think i don’t deserve it or because i could do much better. I know there are people who are proud of pulling off A’s without studying, but believe me. I’m not. </p>
<p>I don’t even tell my grades to anyone, and most people aren’t aware that i’m the top of the class anyway. Just want you to know that the world isn’t full of idiots with their heads filled with bird poop. :)</p>
<p>Don’t really agree with ranting post, so I’ll just ignore it.</p>
<p>I think there are 4 basic kinds of “smart people” in high school:</p>
<p>The Grinds: Have slightly above average intelligence, but work harder than anyone you’ve ever seen to earn all A’s and A+'s. They have very little actual intellectual curiosity and are extremely goal-oriented. My grade’s val is really not too smart at all (doesn’t appear to be a good problem solver and doesn’t do fantastically on standardized tests) and has genuine obsessive-compulisve tendencies related to school. She has no extra curriculars at all and earns all A+'s. </p>
<p>The Lazy Genius: Kid who gets a mix of A’s, B’s, and C’s. They seem to be pretty knowledgable but only ever work on what they enjoy, so if they enjoy a class, they do really well at it. Everyone is shocked by their high SAT scores. </p>
<p>The Obsenely Smart Genius: The kid who gets all A’s and doesn’t have to study an ounce ever. They are typically really disorganized which explains why they rarely ever turn in their homework or have what they need for class. But still, they manage to get by on the tests because they already know everything.</p>
<p>The Pretty Smart, Moderately Hard Worker: This person is pretty bright and puts in just enough effort to achieve desired goals (eg. straight A’s). They have interests outside of school that they love. So while school is secondary to them, they make sure it is at least on the radar. </p>
<p>I guess I fall into the last category. I apparently have a very high IQ but that seems mostly wrong to me since I am no savant or anything. I mean, I’m pretty smart but I’m no Terrence Tao. I get very good grades aside from history classes where in order to earn a B I must work very hard. I rarely study for math, science, or reading but I’m not so good at foreign language and history. I do pretty much the bare minimum to get all A’s (except history). I’m really passionate about random things outside of school and read many, many books on things I will never study in high school.</p>
<p>hah I was listening to an introduction to psychology podcast from MIT and they said that, “The majority of people in the world think that they are better looking and smarter than they actually are.” They also said that the people who have the best grasp on their abilities are depressed people.</p>
<p>Okay, I’m not going to be politically correct at all here but… I believe I saw a study that said difference from the mean IQ was about 50% genetics and 50% environment. It makes sense - after all, you could have tremendous athletic abilities but never go pro. Its not like you see the kid of two brilliant people end up being dumb, and they probably weren’t treated different from most children. They probably end up bright like their parents. The same story happens in athletics. Sure, nurture plays some role, but among two middle class kids who were brought up the same way, its all genetics.</p>
<p>There was this chapter in my psychology book about this topic. I really wanted to read it, but I didn’t have time.</p>
<p>Anyways, I believe that the vast majority of people aren’t naturally brilliant. They earn good grades because:
they study a lot (by doing this they eventually attain a higher level of thinking than their peers)
they have developed very efficient study/test taking techniques</p>
<p>It really ****es me off when people say, “He’s not smart. He’s just hardworking.”
If you can get the same results by working hard, why does innate intelligence even matter? In fact, shouldn’t we admire the hard worker more for his diligence?</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Natural intelligence is unfair; you didn’t earn it through life before birth. </p></li>
<li><p>Hard work, however, is fair because everybody has the ability to do so.</p></li>
<li><p>People often lie to make themselves feel smarter, so natural intelligence may, in the end, be complete BS to people who are actually honeset about themselves. </p></li>
<li><p>If you study a lot for one class and that other guy claims he doesn’t study while still getting a higher grade, he’s lying to portray himself as the smarter guy.</p></li>
<li><p>So stuff like “He’s stupid; he just works hard” is basically judging someone by natural intelligence, which really isn’t very fair, considering it can’t really be changed since birth. Pretty much the same as racism where a pre-determined skin color forces you to be inferior. You like that? No. But the lazy ass deadbeats with high IQ does to make themselves feel better.</p></li>
<li><p>There’s a theory that natural intelligence doesn’t exist; it is developed over time.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>ugh, AGREED. i freaking HATE those kids. going to an extremely rigorous public nj school, there are so many genius asians [not meaning to be discriminatory, but in my school, this IS true], with some dumb potheads & some average-yet-hard-working students [me] mixed in. i always studied so much harder than the other kids in my AP classes & never did nearly as well. if i could make that pact with the devil, i WOULD.</p>
<p>& another thing, i HATE it when people [my dad] say it’s all hard-work. um, NO. i’m smart enough to know that i’m just naturally not as smart, lol. & it’s weird, because my dad is a genius & can crank out any of my math problems in just seconds/minutes. whereas, 2 months after learning something…i have no idea how to do it. i guess that one skipped a generation :|</p>
<p>my friend & i discussed this theory last year that there are 2 types of smart people:the smart dumb people & the dumb smart people. i’m the latter, she’s the former, lol :)</p>
<p>“If you study a lot for one class and that other guy claims he doesn’t study while still getting a higher grade, he’s lying to portray himself as the smarter guy.”</p>
<p>so would i. he IS the <em>naturally</em> smarter guy. no one cares about the kid who studies the most, lol.</p>
<p><theycallmecc> Well, there are a lot out there who work hard but still fails because their METHODS of study SUCKS BALLS. If you have the best study methods, don’t procrastinate, asks a lot of questions, etc. and still can’t beat those other kids… That’s the time you admit they’re really smarter than you in terms of natural intelligence. But a lot of people don’t reach that stage.</theycallmecc></p>
<p>Life is unfair doesn’t mean you can’t try to make it as fair as possible. People who BS about <life is=“” unfair=“”> like to be unfair on purpose, and then use that quote as an excuse. </life></p>
<p>Person A walks in and unexpectedly breaks a stranger’s (person B’s) leg. Person A then challenges person B to a marial arts match. Person B says, “that’s unfair!” Person A responds, “Life is unfair.” </p>
<p>Maybe if you’re in person B’s situation you wouldn’t be throwing around that <life is=“” unfair=“”> quote to explain stuff…</life></p>
<p>Well, I’m not going to try to get less intelligent to even it out.</p>
<p>But again, I think intelligence is based mostly on the factors surrounding one’s upbringing, and also, I think people can actually try to raise their intelligence, although that probably gets much more difficult with age.</p>
<p>1) Person A broke Person B’s leg. Smart people don’t have any role in the deficiencies of less smart people.</p>
<p>2) If the two people were going to participate in a pre-arranged martial arts competition, Person B’s injury should exclude him, fairness aside.</p>