Harvard admissions:gr8 SAT1s vs gr8 SAT2s

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>(SORRY IF THESE QUES HAVE BEEN ANSWERED IN PREV THREADS...I'M DESPERATE FOR AN ACCURATE ANSWER!!)</p>

<p>suppose the harvard admissions committee is down to 2 cases, out of which 1 will be chosen, and one rejected. which of the 2 do u think it will be?:</p>

<p>student A: SAT1: cr770,m780,wr720, SAT2: math2c 800,physics760,chemistry740
student B: SAT1: cr700,m660,wr650, SAT2: math2c 800,physics800,literature 780</p>

<p>both similar A level courses and grades and all
both are INTL students,both are from the same country, and they have very similar school-centered ECs(though still passionate and focused ECs)(i know it's stupid to assume they are the same in all other respects, but just for the sake of comparing their SATs)</p>

<p>Q)look at the SATs. what carries more weight: the SAT1 "aptitude" tests, or the SAT2 "achievement" tests? given all else same(again, that's dumb to assume) who do u think, based on SATs, wins out?</p>

<p>Q)does near perfect SAT2s,gpa, coupled with a lousy SAT1 score, indicate that the student may not be really smart(or just bad at the SAT1), but he/she is still very hardworking???</p>

<p>and finally, how about an extreme case where a student has 3.9uw gpa, 800/790/790 SAT2s,,,but a SAT1 of only say 1800(!!!)...will the "academic rating" (that harvard assigns to ALL applicants) be really low for this student? </p>

<p>sorry for assking all similar ques, but my 2010 sat1 is killing me, esp when i know my other stats put me in the running at least!(and i cant take SAT1 again!!)</p>

2

<p>They would take the kid with the higher SAT I; it is by far more important than the subject tests.</p>

<p>But grades are most important.</p>

3

<p>interesting...so would you say that intelligence (as shown by 2200+ on sat1)is more important than using that intelligence to show academic progress(i.e.750+ on sat2s)?</p>

4

<p>SAT2: math2c 800,physics760,chemistry740
math2c 800,physics800,literature 780</p>

<p>is pretty much equal. not even a comparison. Easily take the kid with the SAT I's</p>

5

<p>so is there a universal consensus on cc that sat1s are regarded more highly than sat2s?? Because i always thought sat2s would be a better indication of a student's academic abilities, and sat1s were just to make sure u got some brains at least(i think i've worded this in a rather dumb way) </p>

<p>so what do u guys think?</p>

6

<p>Harvard would take the kid with great SATs AND SATIIs. Now, scores are just one thing, so don't get too bent up on that stuff. This isn't UC Berk.</p>

7

<p>I reject the hypothesis that any of us can give you an answer that would accurately predict what the Harvard admissions committee will do.</p>

8

<p>i love it when ppl say a sat1 of 2010 wont help OR HURT my case. the not HURT thng is key, coz i know i'll get a better score if i take it again, but i simply wont be able to take it again!</p>

<p>so if i may put more emphasis on the situation>> case1:sat1-2280,sat2-800,750,730
case2>sat1-2010,sat2-800,800,780</p>

<br>


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9

<p>
[quote]
This isn't UC Berk.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>lol.............</p>

10

<p>tokenadult>>>you're right. but i actually dont want my chances. i wanted to know whether A grades in A levels, 780+ sat2s,and so on can offset a really low sat1 score of 2010?</p>

<p>and do u agree that sat1s are way more important than sat2s?</p>

11

<p>The Academic Rating part concering all SAT tests is: A rating of 1 is given to someone with 5 SAT tests over 700 (among other things). </p>

<p>This is what I read in "The Truth about Harvard" By Dov Fox. Therefore, concerning SATs only (and not grades and rank which play a huge part in academic ratings), they would both recieve a 1.</p>

<p>It also seems that Harvard considers SAT tests in general, so SAT I and Subject tests would have equal weight. You just need 5 over 700.</p>

12

<p>UCberkeley? so they consider cut-offs for SATs??</p>

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<p>DH9800>> are the 5 sat2s of 700+ a must for even being considered for a 1 rating?(provided that rank and gpa is stellar)--or can, say 3 or 4 amazing sat2s and gr8 rank and superb gpa etc (plus other thngs pointing to intelectual engagement) also lead to a 1 rating?</p>

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<p>"The highest academic rating of one is reserved for students who rank first or second their high school class, score over 700 on at least five SAT tests, score 4 or 5 on at least three AP tests or 6 or 7 on three IB tests, and show academic initiative outside the classroom.... Roughly 10 percent of applicants to Harvard are given academic ratings of one.... Academic ones are virtual locks for admission."
--Dov Fox, "The Truth About Harvard" (pg. 19)</p>

<p>“Academic initiative outside the classroom [is] demonstrated by participation in summer programs, special projects, research papers, or independent studies.” (Pg.18)</p>

<p>AboutTime: there’s Fox’s full explanation of a “one.” So, in answer to your question, I’d say that scoring over 700 on 5 of the 6 required SAT scores (math, writing, and CR from the SAT 1 and then your 3 subject tests) is a must (so no, he doesn’t mean 5 subject tests). I don’t know how accurate his definition of a “one” really is, since it seems that there are many applicants with these stats and I doubt they’re all “virtual locks for admission.”</p>

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<p>Nameless8989>>nicely put. You're right, i highly doubt the notion of those stats making someone a virtual lock for admission;too many ppl have amazing standardized testing scores!</p>

<p>anyways, I'll copy paste 4 cases here that i saw on the early/regular decision harvard threads from previous years...i thnk i posted this same thing in maybe some other thread somewhere and had interesting comments(so i'm sorry if some ppl thnk i'm double-posting!!) anyway, none of these 4 students are legacies/urms/atheletes/etc, and all are copy/pasted from prev threads(u know the 4th guy really shocked me!!)</p>

<p>accepted
1. girl from Bulgaria
2. SATI - 1490, SATII Writing - 750, SATII German - 800, SATII Literature - 660, SATII Math IC - 650(i know i sucked on my subj tests!)
3. ECs - drama, EIC of school newspaper, community service work, etc.
3. ACCEPTED:Harvard, Yale, Princeton,IUB, Trent U, Lafayette C, Grinnell C, Bates C, Swarthmore C, UPENN, Columbia U, Wesleyan U.
4. asked for lot of aid....could give only 8000$....got grants from alll...!!
5...the above ECs were all at community level, and i also took a GAP yr.</p>

<p>Decision: Accepted
Stats:
SAT I: 610V; 690M; 640W--1940
SAT IIs: French w/ Listening (480); Math 2C (690); US History (770)
ACT
GPA: 4.45 - 4.0 (unweighted)
Rank: top 2%; class of 472
Other stats: AP US History - 5
Subjective:
Essays: emotional & uplifting
Teacher Recs: didn't read - neither teacher has ever written a rec for an Ivy League before - 1 of the teacher was a 2nd year teacher (taught me in her 1st year)
Counselor Rec: didn't read - 2nd year counselor but she still knew me pretty well despite the large number of students
Hook (if any): live on my own; asian not interested in science; geographic location; crappy school; 1st person in family to go to college
Location/Person:
State or Country: southern VA
School Type: large & rural - no one has ever made it to an Ivy League, most drop out/go to community college; only top 50% take SAT (avg 961)
Ethnicity: SE Asian - Vietnamese
Gender: female
Perceived Strengths/Weaknesses: essays / College Board hates me - in all fairness, I only took the SAT I twice & the SAT IIs once. As for the French SAT score, I have taken French for 5 years and have always been top in my class. Unfortunately, French is not considered to be my school's top priority so a French 5 at my school is equivalent to, at most, French 3 at other schools.
Why you think you were accepted/deferred/denied: the adcoms are in the holiday spirit
Other Factors: jobs take up a big part of my ecs. I worked 3 jobs in the summer - 2.5 (newspaper carrier is the .5) during school year (~40 hrs/week)</p>

<p>.................................................. ......................</p>

<p>Decision: Rejected
Stats:
SAT: 1600--------------------2400
SAT IIs: 800/800/800
GPA: 4.4 W, 4.0 UW
Rank: 2/470
Other stats: 35 ACT, 5's on 3 APs
Subjective:
Essays: Good, did optional one too
Teacher Recs: Don't know
Counselor Rec: Good
Hook (if any): none
Location/Person:
State or Country: Nebraska
School Type: public
Ethnicity: white
Gender: female
major strength/weakness: lots of community service, but not much leadership
why you think you were accepted/rejected/defered: didn't show enough personality? showed too much personality? adcom had a bad hair day?
Other Factors: none
I have a smart email program, the admissions decision letter went straight to the spam folder </p>

<p>------Rejected
1590 800 800 780
5/5/5/5/5/5/4/4/4
National AP Scholar
300 hours volunteering ~ ER
Cancer Research
30 college credits (non-AP, taken at state univ)
Really good recs
I think essays were fine</p>

<h2>other factors: school isn't so good, but two people were recruited for athletics, so they prolly didnt want to take more. o well..."</h2>

<p>so what do u think...weird right?!!</p>

16

<p>the 4th guy above seems to thnk that since 2 ppl from his school already got in, he was rejected;does that really happen?</p>

17

<p>From what I've heard from Harvard reps: No.</p>

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<p>thanks Nameless8989.</p>

<p>ok So am i the only one to be surprised by the profiles of the accepted/rejected ppl on the previous page??!(post #15)</p>

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<p>I'm not surprised by the profile with a perfect SAT I score, as the ivy league enjoys declaring that they deny a certain amount of applicants with 2400s.</p>

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<p>"so what do u think...weird right?!!"</p>

<p>I don't think the admissions decisions look too weird. We all know that Harvard doesn't just look at scores and GPA, and none of us have the liberty of reading entire applications. In response to the last person's rejection...where is his/her GPA? While the person's test scores are obvioulsly fantastic, the most important determining admissions factor is missing.</p>