<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=517054%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=517054</a> </p>
<p>Earlier a parent asked about trends in the number of students applying to colleges. At Harvard, at least, it looks like even if the number of high school graduates begins to decline in the United States (as is predicted for a few years from now), the number of applicants will keep going up. It's a competitive world.</p>
<p>Interesting. It also looks like Harvard is thinking ahead to the decline in colleg-age U.S. students, and is therefore increasing its recruiting of internatiionals.</p>
<p>A bit of the Crimson's article: </p>
<p>"A record number of applicants sought admission to next year’s Harvard College class, including a rising number of international students. </p>
<p>According to preliminary figures set to be released today, total applications to the Class of 2011 reached 22,920, surpassing the Class of 2009’s previous record of 22,796 applicants. The number of international applicants this year increased by 12 percent. </p>
<p>Dean of Admissions William R. Fitzsimmons ’67 attributed the increase to recruiting efforts, Harvard’s generous financial aid program, and positive publicity associated with the College’s September decision to end early action admissions for the Class of 2012. </p>
<p>“The bedrock of the success we’ve had in the past decade has been our recruiting,” he said....</p>
<p>The College has also ramped up its efforts to recruit international students. Admissions officers have recently taken trips to such areas as Africa, India, and Pakistan in an effort to ensure that international students know their options for going abroad for college. "</p>
<p>not sure I see the correlation of SCEA in '11 and RD in '12....but, then again, the spinmeisters are just brilliant --if H says it, it must be so. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Er, a rise of 124 applications over two years? Talk about spinning!</p>
<p>Harvard can afford to lose a few thousand "lottery ticket" applications a year without any drop in the quality of the admitted students. The surge in international applicants will really raise the bar for the domestic applicants.</p>
<p>good point Dana: let's see, a 0.54% increase in apps is a stong indicator that their marketing department is doing an excellent outreach job, and, of course, the change to RD was meaninful to this year's class. </p>
<p>Why does higher ed continue to shovel this stuff? Is it bcos the NYT continues to believe it gospel? (Fortunately for those in higher ed, journalists aren't rocket scientists, or more importantly, nor stats-junkies.)</p>
<p>The thing to look at is the growth rate in the age range applying to college (which was the thrust of the question in the earlier thread that prompted me to post this here). I have no idea how the northeastern United States (the home region of the plurality of Harvard applicants) compares to my region as to whether the number of high school seniors is already declining or not. MOST students go to college within 500 miles of home, so that's the first demographic constraint on any college's enrollment figures. But, yeah, if the College Board can be persuaded to offer SAT I and SAT II testing all over China (I understand that test security is a very serious concern over there), then Harvard might see a HUGE increase in applications in a few years. Harvard's no-merit-scholarship, full-ride-for-full-need financial aid policies act to dissuade some strong domestic students from applying (they take merit scholarships at non-Ivy-League colleges) but also provide a huge incentive for smart kids from poor countries to apply. As word gets out around the world, the quality of applicants (and maybe their quantity too) could still keep rising for quite a while.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The surge in international applicants will really raise the bar for the domestic applicants.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is that a given? Why should we assume that all international applications are more or even as competitive as domestic ones? Schools with well recognized names and reputation abroad attract a fair share of whimsical applications. The "why not" factor is far from being solely a domestic one.</p>
<p>Also, one needs to be careful when looking at "surges" as they might very well follow a decrease. It was not so long ago that Harvard had to absorb the cost of higher visa fees because of drops in foreign applicants, especially for graduate students.</p>
<p>Xiggi:</p>
<p>The acceptance rates for internationals suggests an applicant pool overflowing with whimsy!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh, yes. (And I imagine that this is the substance of interesteddad's comment too.) But I remember when study in the United States was financially feasible mostly only for graduate students from foreign countries (who mostly get full financial support) rather than for undergraduates from the same countries. Since Yale (which was the first of the world famous colleges in the United States to announce this, several years ago) announced that it was applying need-blind, meeting-100-percent-of-need policies to applicants from around the world, it has become more and more competitive to get in. Princeton and Harvard have found the same. There are great high school students all over the world, and as they gradually hear (and believe) that there are opportunities to study in the States that they can actually afford, they begin to apply to those far away colleges in greater numbers. At the margin, they tend to raise the academic standards for admission.</p>
<p>The end of SCEA was widely reported in the press, contributing to the greater visibility of Harvard among prospective applicants.</p>
<p>While I was going to get breakfast, I thought that it would be interesting, and not at all what I would consider a thread hijack, to post in this thread links to student newspaper news stories about other colleges' admission numbers for this year as those numbers come out. Initially, I posted just because an earlier thread, titled "Latest</a> Estimates on College Application Trends?" raised the question of which demographic factors will influence how many applicants apply to colleges in the next several years. I appreciate that this new thread has already elicited several comments that disagree with the implicit premise of the Harvard Crimson article on Harvard's announced figures for this year. Most people, in addition to being interested in general trends, are also interested in specific numbers from specific colleges, so I'd be glad to see those numbers (e.g., links to student newspaper articles about admission office announcements) for other colleges posted here. Thanks for the thought-provoking comments so far.</p>
<p>I found the comparable article for Yale </p>
<p><a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/19727%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/19727</a> </p>
<p>just by browsing the appropriate college-specific forum here on CC.</p>
<p>Tokenadult, I believe that it is extremely important to analyze the practices of graduate school recruiting differently from undergraduate recruiting. Unfortunately, many graduate schools have become addicted to the influx of foreign graduate students who represent a range of full paying customers or ... a very inexpensive labor force. If that is good or bad is simply a matter of individual perspective. </p>
<p>As far as extending the need-blind and fully need-based admissions to the international pool, it is also a matter of individual preference. Although it is restricted to a very few selective schools where the impact might represent a budgetary rounding error and good public relations, I happen to think that it is a policy that should NOT be emulated by the majority of our schools, even partially.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Has Harvard extended need-blind admssions and full-need financial aid to international students? When?</p></li>
<li><p>A 20% difference in applications between Yale and Harvard seems sort of surprising. Does anyone know how precedented or un- that is? (Of course, there's a 20% difference in the number of slots available, too.)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As a matter of United States visa regulations, foreign students can only come over if they can demonstrate ability to support themselves while here (without working at jobs in the general national economy). They can demonstrate that by evidence that </p>
<p>a) they are rich, </p>
<p>or </p>
<p>b) they have full support from the receiving institution. </p>
<p>It's up to each college/graduate school to decide what scholarships or fellowships to offer what categories of students. No college will go out of its way to get worse students at the same price at which better students are available. Only a few colleges have sufficient resources to offer to fully support all undergraduate students with financial need, so the majority of foreign students from some poor countries will continue to arrive as graduate students.</p>
<p>NEED-BASED FINANCIAL AID: </p>
<p>The Harvard Financial Aid Office works with each family to ensure access to the Harvard education students have worked so hard to secure. Applying for financial aid does not jeopardize a student's chance for admission. Indeed, the Admissions Committee may respond favorably to evidence that a candidate has overcome significant obstacles, financial or otherwise. All of Harvard's financial aid is awarded on the basis of demonstrated financial need - there are no academic, athletic or merit-based awards. </p>
<p>*Harvard meets the full need of every student, including international students, for all four years. *</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.fao.fas.harvard.edu/</a></p>
<p>
[quote]
1. Has Harvard extended need-blind admssions and full-need financial aid to international students? When?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sometime in the last few years, after Yale's announcement of the same policy. MIT supports foreign students, but has an explicit cap on their numbers. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton have no upper limit on the number of foreign undergraduates they will enroll with full support. I think I heard that Stanford is now moving in this direction too.</p>
<p>I don't want to sound xenophobic, so please take this as an honest question.</p>
<p>Why are these highly selective schools spending so much time and money recruiting international students? Harvard is not the only school that recruited heavily overseas this year. It seems to me, given how competitive it is now to get into these places, that increasing international applicants is just going to make it even tougher for domestic applicants.</p>
<p>I understand the desire for diversity, that having international students brings a much-wanted perspective to the campus. Perhaps colleges are looking ahead 5-10 years when the baby boom echo is over, and they are laying the groundwork for future applicants. But right now, given the existing competitive situation, this push for internationals is just making it tougher for U.S. students.</p>
<p>Sly, I think that you have addressed the reasons behind the "new" push to look abroad. In very simple terms, the world has become smaller and it is important for the leading US schools to also remain leading institutions on the international scene. </p>
<p>However, I do not really see this as making it tougher for domestic students that it has been. Candidates are evaluated against their peers and it is doubtful that the admissions' criteria are truly identical. For instance, the expectations of string involvement in EC activities has to be different for citizens of countries where such activities are difficult. Also, grading systems and test scores are not necessarily comparable, especially in the verbal requirements. For instance, how well does a school expect a student who has to take the TOEFL to score on the SAT Writing? That is why the schools use a holistic approach. Assuming that foreign students are stronger requires a huge leap of faith!</p>
<p>In the end, it is extremely doubtful that a surge in foreign applicants will cause the bar to be raised for domestic students and will result in a displacement of domestic students. The biggest changes in ethnic redistribution will continue to take place within the domestic groups.</p>