harvard engineering

College Majors Engineering Majors
41

<p>
[quote]
What I think is the real issue is what I have already said: most high school seniors don't really know what they want to do.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And to that I'll say that there are also many who do know what they want to do. Some are more sure than others. To say that a student shouldn't go to MIT because there's a 5% chance he/she will change majors is ridiculous. To say that a student with an undecided major shouldn't go to MIT is very reasonable. </p>

<p>We're all arguing about a general population when we should be looking at this on a case-by-case basis. It's silly to talk about a hypothetical person without knowing the details of what this hypothetical person wants.</p>

<p>And for the record, when I was 4 years old, I wanted to do construction. 19 years later, I'm doing it! lol. Sure I'm not the ordinary case, but there are plenty of high school seniors who do know what they want to study. Probably not the majority, but there's at least a sizable population.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
And to that I'll say that there are also many who do know what they want to do. Some are more sure than others. To say that a student shouldn't go to MIT because there's a 5% chance he/she will change majors is ridiculous. To say that a student with an undecided major shouldn't go to MIT is very reasonable.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But sakky will give you an essay about how no person goes to college knowing what they want to do and thats why the only school people should go to are ones that offer every major on the planet. In case I decide to switch from CompE to Women's Studies you know.</p>

43

<p>
[quote]
And to that I'll say that there are also many who do know what they want to do. Some are more sure than others.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is completely aligned with what I have been saying all along: it all depends on how sure you really are. </p>

<p>But, again, I knew quite a few students who were supposedly "completely sure" about engineering going in, yet nevertheless switched out of engineering later on. Some because they found engineering to be far harder than they thought (which is especially common at a difficult school like MIT), some because they found engineering to be quite different from what they thought it would be (i.e. they thought they'd be designing cool technologies, not spending years wading through an endless morass of incomprehensible theoretical equations), and still others because they found more interesting fare. </p>

<p>
[quote]
But sakky will give you an essay about how no person goes to college knowing what they want to do and thats why the only school people should go to are ones that offer every major on the planet. In case I decide to switch from CompE to Women's Studies you know.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And then Joejoe05 will provide an inane response that does nothing to advance the conversation at hand. Dude, if you don't like my 'essays' (as you put it), fine, then don't read them. It's really not that hard. </p>

<p>I am simply saying that there are legitimate reasons to choose Harvard over MIT, even if you may think you want to be an engineer. It all depends on how sure you think you are about engineering. I doubt that this is a controversial point.</p>

44

<p>
[quote]
This is MIT we're talking about here. We're talking about being forced to take multivar - and subject to the grading curve - with some of the most technically savviest students in the world. It would be like me being forced to take a music composition class...at Juilliard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, it's not as if MIT can force people to actually enroll there ... if they don't want to take GIRs, they can and should apply elsewhere.</p>

<p>I would assume that someone who attends Juilliard (or any other competitive school) is aware of the competition, and is willing to compete.</p>

45

<p>
[quote]
But, again, I knew quite a few students who were supposedly "completely sure" about engineering going in, yet nevertheless switched out of engineering later on.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But what about students who weren't "completely sure" about engineering, science, etc., but wound up loving all the requirements they took at a place like MIT? This would suggest that the GIRs have some value. Another thing to take into consideration is that the value of an education is not just limited to what kind of career you're able to have when you graduate. Knowledge helps you make decisions in your own best interests. A fundamental knowledge of biology and chemistry can help make intelligent decisions about one's health, diet, etc.</p>

46

<p>Sakky, to answer your point about Harvard being "singled out," that isn't exactly the case and your analogy isn't accurate. It's more an issue of people laughing at the engineering programs at prestigious schools that focus far more on the pure sciences and the liberal arts - schools whose engineering offerings are certainly inferior to those of many state flagships. If someone brought up Yale/Brown/Dartmouth engineering, I'm sure you'd see the same reaction - people would redirect the OP to peer institutions with stronger programs.</p>

<p>Peer institutions being the key phrase. The reason no one redirects a poster who is inquiring about the strength of San Jose State engineering is because I doubt many people know precisely who SJSU's peers are (much less the comparative strength of their engineering programs). Of course no one is going to tell him "Nah bro, go to MIT, not SJSU!" because if he's a prospective SJSU student, MIT most likely is not realistic for him. MIT, Stanford, and Harvard are on roughly equal playing fields - if someone is seriously considering Harvard for engineering, a) he must certainly be at CONSIDERING applying/attending Stanford and MIT (among others), so b) others will naturally make comparative assessments about peer programs.</p>

47

<p>To aibarr -- I don't think I ever said someone would go to Harvey Mudd and have no interest in math, science or engineering, even in what you quoted. What I did say is that you could conceivably not want to take ALL the various requirements they tell you to take, <em>even if you are interested in pure math</em>. It's a great school, and no doubt very smart people come out of it - I know at least one. There is actually not much to what I'm saying at all - if there're tons of requirements you don't like, well no matter how much you like the prof's or students around, you'll feel academically stifled to an extent. Not everyone wants that. </p>

<p>Which is why I think students should take a really careful look before going to such schools. Now, similarly for any school which calls itself a tech school - MIT included. Depending on what they have you do as requirements, you may want to reconsider, as terrific a school as MIT is.</p>

<p>OK what if I wanted to major in math? Harvard and MIT are both fantastic schools to do that from. I think if one academic program suited my needs more, I'd probably choose based on that, well perhaps most especially because one can get the best of both worlds in that case by taking a small stroll across the snow.</p>

48

<p>The other thing is - I don't understand how posters are getting all riled up that it's being suggested "nobody knows what they should major in." I mean, if someone is PRETTY CONFIDENT about engineering, i.e. reads books about it for fun, maybe was into fiddling with EE from an early age [I have friends like this], why not MIT! One can't be sure about everything, and it's fairly likely if engineering doesn't work out, some other technical field [or Sloan =]] will work out. </p>

<p>However, if one really does not know that certainly, I think allowing other factors to come into play is legitimate.</p>

<p>And as for the Harvey Mudd thing I brought in...I mean, fairly simple point too. If their Core will consume you alive, I'd go elsewhere to avoid it. If it looks cool, go for it after some self-reflection.</p>

49

<p>And to JoeJoe - I did, I'm pretty sure, acknowledge that I'm not sure why I'd end up at MIT and want to do a literature degree WHILE hating math + science, because there are other schools I could go to.</p>

<p>The more general point is that avoiding MIT for another good school for not liking several of the academic obligations at MIT seems pretty simple a point.</p>

50

<p>Heck, as an anecdote - my friend just received notification fairly early that he's into Berkeley's math Ph.D. program. Guess what - after getting straight A's and A+'s from the toughest professors here, he's MOST afraid of not passing a humanities course he has to before graduation [not that he can't do it, just that it's SO INCREDIBLY not of interest to him]. I'm the same way, unless the humanities you're talking about is some sort of interesting literature - the only thing outside of pure math and physics that I have an academic taste for really.</p>

<p>Requirements can get to be a huge bother really fast, when it's MANY MORE than one such class one is dealing with. I iterate it a few times, because I got the feeling from reading that not everyone was following how simple this point is.</p>

51

<p>
[quote]
Sakky, to answer your point about Harvard being "singled out," that isn't exactly the case and your analogy isn't accurate. It's more an issue of people laughing at the engineering programs at prestigious schools that focus far more on the pure sciences and the liberal arts - schools whose engineering offerings are certainly inferior to those of many state flagships. If someone brought up Yale/Brown/Dartmouth engineering, I'm sure you'd see the same reaction - people would redirect the OP to peer institutions with stronger programs.</p>

<p>Peer institutions being the key phrase. The reason no one redirects a poster who is inquiring about the strength of San Jose State engineering is because I doubt many people know precisely who SJSU's peers are (much less the comparative strength of their engineering programs). Of course no one is going to tell him "Nah bro, go to MIT, not SJSU!" because if he's a prospective SJSU student, MIT most likely is not realistic for him. MIT, Stanford, and Harvard are on roughly equal playing fields - if someone is seriously considering Harvard for engineering, a) he must certainly be at CONSIDERING applying/attending Stanford and MIT (among others), so b) others will naturally make comparative assessments about peer programs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>None of that takes away from the simple reality that Harvard does indeed have one of the best engineering programs out there, relative to the hundreds of programs that exist. </p>

<p>Sure, I can agree that somebody who can get into Harvard probably can get into a higher ranked engineering program. But that hardly makes the Harvard engineering program 'bad' or undesirable. Like I said, even the Harvard engineering program alone is better than the vast majority of other engineering programs out there, and I would argue may actually be better than every program other than a small handful when you factor in the MIT x-reg option. For example, I would argue that Harvard's engineering resources combined with MIT's engineering resources that are available through xreg are almost certainly better than what is available at, say, Princeton (which is also a very good engineering school). After all, Princeton engineering students don't get xreg access to any other highly regarded engineering school.</p>

52

<p>
[quote]
Well, it's not as if MIT can force people to actually enroll there ... if they don't want to take GIRs, they can and should apply elsewhere.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Which was exactly my point: some people, even engineering students, may actually be better off at Harvard than at MIT. Obviously it's not the majority of people, in fact, I suspect that subset is rather small. But it's not zero either. </p>

<p>
[quote]
But what about students who weren't "completely sure" about engineering, science, etc., but wound up loving all the requirements they took at a place like MIT? This would suggest that the GIRs have some value. Another thing to take into consideration is that the value of an education is not just limited to what kind of career you're able to have when you graduate. Knowledge helps you make decisions in your own best interests. A fundamental knowledge of biology and chemistry can help make intelligent decisions about one's health, diet, etc.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not saying that the GIR's don't have any value. I am simply saying that some students don't want to be restricted by the GIR's, in which case MIT would be a poor fit.</p>

53

<p>I believe Harvard's undergraduate engineering program rank is 29th.</p>

54

<p>Yeah, exactly. I think that a ranking of #29 is terrific, when you consider the fact that there are hundreds of engineering programs out there.</p>

55

<p>Wow, glad I found this.</p>

<p>Sakky, you might be wiser to tell interested engineering applicants of Harvard to call them directly and inquire about their programs.
I say this because their SEAS department rep recently said - on the phone, not on this post, so you know it's legit - that Harvard does NOT, for instance, collaborate with MIT on a CE program... How many other programs that might be applicable to, I don't know. So xreg with MIT is not permitted, or I should say available, across the board.</p>

<p>I suggest that no one reading these threads assume all of this information is correct - whether it's positive or negative. And I'd further ask that those of you who have the broader experience and perspective - please pick up the phone and confirm your info. Readers really are interested in these perspectives, and it will help all that much more if it's as accurate and up-to-date as possible.</p>

<p>For the most part, everything on this thread was helpful in some way - if nothing else than it was food for thought. Thanks!</p>

56

<p>
[quote]
I say this because their SEAS department rep recently said - on the phone, not on this post, so you know it's legit - that Harvard does NOT, for instance, collaborate with MIT on a CE program. How many other programs that might be applicable to, I don't know. So xreg with MIT is not permitted, or I should say available, across the board.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First off, I never once said that Harvard "collaborated" with MIT on a CE program. In fact, Harvard doesn't "collaborate" with MIT for any undergrad program. Please carefully read what I actually wrote in my posts, not what you think I wrote.</p>

<p>But I don't see why that is such an issue anyway. You go to Harvard, and you want to study CE, you then choose to major in the Engineering Sciences (which is what Harvard calls its general engineering program), and then you supplement that with judicious xreg courses at MIT as applicable. Granted, your degree still won't be 'officially' called a CE degree. But so what? Who cares what it's called? It's still an ABET accredited degree. If you use MIT xreg properly, you can construct an engineering curriculum that, frankly, is probably superior to the vast majority of CE programs out there. {Let's be honest - most CE programs aren't that great.} </p>

<p>Hence, xreg with MIT is permitted. Heck, it is always permitted as long as the course under consideration is not offered at Harvard, and if we are talking about CE, then that requirement is trivial to fulfill. </p>

<p>But again, if you want to accuse me of stating inaccurate information, then make sure you understood what I actually said. In fact, I would argue that your post is inaccurate. In particular, MIT xreg is available across the board. It's not available for 'collaboration with a CE program', because no such collaboration exists for any undergrad program exists and I never claimed that it did.</p>

57

<p>
[quote]
CE program

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Computer engineering? Chemical engineering? Civil engineering?</p>