Harvard Extension School

freedom21 · June 4, 2007, 10:15am

Hi clickpunch, first of all, Congratulations!!

I dont have any personal experience but I am certain that it takes a lot of discipline and dedication to earn a Harvard Degree specially while maintaining a fulltime job and a family. Now, tell us more, how does it feel to be called a Harvard Graduate (Oopps..siserune's tiny brain just exploded..lol)?

"I got the same test that daytime students were getting" - I absolutely agree with clickpunch. I know many people who are taking/already took classes at HES in different programs (i.e. Psychology, Government, Journalism, Information Management Systems concentration etc.) and all of them say the same thing. The syllabus, course work, homework, problem sets, projects, deadlines, research, exams everything are ditto as the day class. The only different is one of the course is offered in the daytime and the other is offered at night/evening.

Anyway, folks, please join me in congratulating clickpunch on his achievement, a Harvard Degree!

sakky · June 5, 2007, 8:33pm

[quote]
Your examples were where somebody other than the alumnus (e.g., the corporate Public Relations department, the journalist writing an article) chose the description

[/quote]

Such press reports are almost always * based * on what the individual in question wanted the press report or article to say. For example, most corporate PR departments will specifically ask what an employee wants their bio to say and then, subject to fact-checking, will just print it verbatim. Rarely if ever will they just print something of their own accord.

But anyway, even if you were right, and it was a decision made by the PR department or the journalist to 'conceal' a particular Harvard degree from KSG or GSE, then that only begs the question of * why? *.

In other words, instead of having the individual in question concealing a particular Harvard degree fomr GSE or KSG, you now have people who are once-removed (the PR department, the journalist, etc.) now trying to conceal a particular Harvard degree from GSE or KSG. But that's a distinction without a difference. Either way, looks like * somebody * out there is attempting to conceal. What does it matter WHO is trying to conceal it? All that matters is that SOMEBODY is trying to conceal it, and that begs the question of why. So evidently, somebody feels that an affiliation with KSG or GSE is not worth mentioning.

sakky · June 5, 2007, 8:55pm

[quote]
Let's take a simple example to make clear the distinction. Michael Shinagel, who is dean of the Extension School and DCE, proposed recently to change HES diplomas to list the field of study instead of "Extension Studies". Both the Harvard faculty and College students (or at least, the UC) objected to such a measure, as it would create confusion between HES degrees and other Harvard degrees.

[/quote]

Yes, and this is no different from all of the other political jockeying and infighting that goes on in Harvard. Each particular subdivision of Harvard jealously guards its turf. For example, when Harvard Business School wanted to create a doctoral program in information technology, the Harvard Division of Engineering and Applied Sciences (DEAS) objected, saying that they either wanted to be intimately involved with such a project (because it was heavily tech oriented), or that HBS should drop the project. The compromise solution was that HBS and DEAS negotiated to create the interdisciplinary ITM (Information Technology & Management) PhD program.

<a href="http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/itm/%5B/url%5D">http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/itm/</a>

The point is, no division at Harvard is going to want to let another division of Harvard intrude on its turf by creating confusion. DEAS didn't want to let HBS solely run a program that sounded like an engineering/tech program.

[quote]
Now, suppose that the proposal had been in the other direction: to change Harvard's policy so that HES degrees must be reported as "ALB, Harvard Extension School". Is it your claim that nobody at HES would possibly object to this, since all that they ever do in describing their Harvard affiliation is just an innocent reflection of whatever Harvard's policy happens to be? That's in effect what you've been claiming, and it is totally unbelievable. What is much more likely is that there would be an enormous level of opposition from HES students to such a proposal, as highlighting the Extension aspect would reduce the value of their degree.

[/quote]

Of course! And I'm sure the same would be true if Harvard forced all of the GSE graduates to list their degrees as specifically coming from GSE - you would have plenty of opposition coming from GSE students. Let's be honest, a lot of GSE students are there just because they ride off the Harvard brand name. There's nothing wrong with that, that's just how it is. The same is true of KSG. The same is true of HBS with the exec-ed programs - I think there is little dispute that what the exec-ed programs are really selling is the HBS brand name. People want to go to the exec-ed programs mostly because they want to be able to SAY that they studied at HBS. That's why the exec-ed programs can charge so much money.

Look, the truth of the matter is, of ALL of Harvard's programs - whether they are the less selective ones like HES or GSE, or the most selective ones like HBS or HMS or HLS - plenty of students are just there because of the Harvard brand name. If Harvard didn't have that big brand name, fewer people in EVERY ONE of Harvard's programs would want to go there. So why single out HES on this score? Furthermore, like I said, there are some Harvard programs (i.e. GSE) that are less prominent than other programs, and hence you could say that ALL of the less prominent programs are riding off the the slipstream of the more prominent programs. So, again, why single out HES?

siserune · June 9, 2007, 10:02am

[quote]
[Extension School dean] Michael Shinagel ... made the proposal last year April. The UC had surely questioned his suggestion (as they do for anything) but also agreed and supported his proposal.

[/quote]

No, the UC denounced Shinagel's proposal. A committee of the UC unanimously recommended, and the UC passed by a margin of about 10-to-1, an "affirmation of the integrity of FAS degrees" strongly opposing the proposed removal of the words Extension Studies from the HES degrees. 
The resolution can be found at:

<a href="http://www.uc.fas.harvard.edu/council.web/legislation/files/24s/24S-60%20Affirmation%20of%20the%20Integrity%20and%20Currency%20of%20Degrees%20in%20the%20Faculty%20of%20Arts%20and%20Sciences.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.uc.fas.harvard.edu/council.web/legislation/files/24s/24S-60%20Affirmation%20of%20the%20Integrity%20and%20Currency%20of%20Degrees%20in%20the%20Faculty%20of%20Arts%20and%20Sciences.pdf</a>

Excerpt: "whereas the integrity of perception of the [Harvard College A.B.] degree may, in some contexts, be jeopardized if the expressed specificity of similar degrees granted for extension studies by Harvard Extension School is diminished ... be it therefore *resolved that the Harvard Undergraduate Council
express[es] its opposition to the proposed diminution of specificity on degrees granted in extension studies ... *"

The Harvard Crimson quoted a professor, who had attended the faculty council where Shinagel proposed the change, as objecting that "misunderstandings might occur" if reference to Extension Studies were removed:

<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513113%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513113</a>

redlinekid2 · June 9, 2007, 11:43am

From what I've read so far, the Harvard Extension School is what a person makes of it. I think that it's better for HES to retain its current status for its ALB degree program, as well as its open enrollment policy. It gives everyone a chance to prove themselves to see if they can handle the rigorous classwork that HES provides before they apply to the ALB program.

After being rejected from Columbia GS and UPenn CGS program, I feel that HES is my best bet because it would give me an opportunity to enroll in a few classes before I apply to their ALB program. Since I know exactly how to structure my education, HES will work well in my favor. Unlike Columbia GS and UPenn CGS program, who wouldn't grant me provisional status that would have allowed me to prove myself. Also, what's the use of advertising that a strong applicant needs a 3.0 GPA, when that is far from the truth? Either they have forgotten to update that information or they have gotten very competitive in recent years as far as academic requirements is concerned.

As a result, I am very skeptical about HES ALB admissions policy because they said that a student needs to take a Expo. Writing class plus two other classes with a "B-" of better to eligitable for admission to the degree program. I was rejected for having one bad grade "D" on my academic transcript, even though my overall GPA was 3.5; without it, plus the "B" grade that I got in College Algebra, my GPA would have been a 3.7+. So I was turned down because of it. I'm just afraid that I might do quite well in the first three classes at HES with at least a B+/A- overall, but still get rejected on the basis of my past academic record. I certainly hope that this is not the case. But I have my doubts.

RubenB84 · June 9, 2007, 11:47am

siserune, the student council shut it down but it never got to a faculty vote. I emailed Mr. Shinagel about it. I don't know where the last person that posted that got his or her information from but I knew that it never passed. I IM'ed them about it. Look the point is that you do not have a point and are coming up with excuses to demean the school. There is a ton of negativity surrounding the school, both from outside Harvard and within. The point is that HES has the backing of the administration and the FAS, and regardless of the bad press it gets, people can always check the facts at the door. I think its gets bad press because no one cares that HES has the full backing of the University and that grads have a legitimate right to omit ES from official resumes. I think that it just boils people that most are getting away with this while the administration backs it up. Almost as if this is going against some sort of elitist code.

RubenB84 · June 9, 2007, 12:20pm

red,
All of the non-traditional programs advertise that all you need is a 3.0 to get admitted. UPenn, Brown, Columbia and even HES. I talked to an advisor about the program and he laid the skinny and admitted that because so many people apply, they have to up the bar and admit people who get stellar grades. That's the only way they can function. They cannot admit everyone. I mean why do you think only about 10k people have graduated in the past 100 years from the extension school when it serves a community of about twice that much in it's open enrollment program? It's because the non-traditional programs lure you in by telling you all you need is a 3.0 when in reality they're looking for much higher than that to keep the integrity of the school intact. The advisor laid it out to me by asking me if I really thought that Harvard was just going to let any joe or jane that can pass some courses enter the program?
No. The truth is that out of the many that apply, they admit half, and then out of that half only about a quarter graduate. A lot of happy go lucky Joes from Minnesota, find out about the ES, and say "I can do this". They save up money or take the online courses, come up to take the Expo class, and fail. Others pass, but dont get admitted, or get admitted but cannot maintain to stay in the program all the way and drop out. Then they end up like Michael Godelia, who roam the halls of Harvard, wishing they were at Harvard.

<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=518155%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=518155</a>

I am sorry to burst your bubble, red, but this is how non-traditional programs work. Just take your three classes, stay above a 3.2, take the Expo Class (this class weeds people out), get admitted and take out loans, win scholarships, grants, anything so you wont have to work a lot and you can focus on staying in the program.

sakky · June 9, 2007, 7:56pm

[quote]
No, the UC denounced Shinagel's proposal. A committee of the UC unanimously recommended, and the UC passed by a margin of about 10-to-1, an "affirmation of the integrity of FAS degrees" strongly opposing the proposed removal of the words Extension Studies from the HES degrees.
The resolution can be found at:

<a href="http://www.uc.fas.harvard.edu/counci...20Sciences.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.uc.fas.harvard.edu/counci...20Sciences.pdf</a>

Excerpt: "whereas the integrity of perception of the [Harvard College A.B.] degree may, in some contexts, be jeopardized if the expressed specificity of similar degrees granted for extension studies by Harvard Extension School is diminished ... be it therefore resolved that the Harvard Undergraduate Council
express[es] its opposition to the proposed diminution of specificity on degrees granted in extension studies ... "

The Harvard Crimson quoted a professor, who had attended the faculty council where Shinagel proposed the change, as objecting that "misunderstandings might occur" if reference to Extension Studies were removed:

<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513113%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513113</a>

[/quote]

Siserune, this seems to be no different from all of the other turf battles that go on at Harvard regarding who gets to claim what status. For example, Harvard GSAS has jealously guarded its right to be the only administrative body at Harvard that can grant PhD degrees. The other schools at Harvard can offer doctorates, but not PhD degrees.

For example, HBS can only offer the DBA (Doctor of Business Administration) degree by itself. The PhD programs it offers (i.e. in bus ec, organizational behavior, health policy, and ITM) have to be offered jointly with GSAS, and the PhD is then formally awarded by GSAS (even though those HBS PhD students have offices at HBS, spend almost all their time at HBS with HBS profs, and are for all effective purposes are just like the DBA students). Other business schools at other universities are free to offer PhD's. For example, the MIT Sloan School awards business PhD's, as does Stanford GSB, Wharton, Kellogg, etc. It's only HBS that is forced into this weird world of offering some of its doctoral students DBA's, and having to direct some of its other doctoral students back to GSAS which will formally award them the PhD (even though they do all their work at HBS).

Similarly, the SPH is only allowed to award the Sc.D. degree by itself (can only offer a PhD jointly through GSAS). The GSD is only allowed to award the Doctor of Design (D.Des.) degree by itself. The Divinity School can only award the ThD degree by itself. HLS can only offer the SJD degree.

And we're not just talking about specific degree designations. The subject matter is also jealously guarded. For example, if HBS were to try to offer a DBA in economics or business economics, I am quite certain that GSAS would protest vigorously. It often times makes very little sense because HBS offers at DBA in strategy, and strategy is largely a subset of economics (and many Harvard PhD students in econ or business econ specialize in strategy and get placed as strategy profs).

redlinekid2 · June 9, 2007, 11:57pm

Thanks for the insight Ruben. Right now I am enrolled in a Pre-Calculus math class. For the Fall Semester, I plan to enroll in Calculus I, followed by Multivariable Calculus as non-credit in the Spring Semester. In plan to attend the Harvard Summer School by next year to enroll in the Economics Statistics class. Afterwards, I'll enroll in Expo. 15 in the Fall 2008 Semester and Expo. 25 for the Spring 2009 Semester at the Harvard Extension School. That will be my focus. Any other classes will have to wait until I know if I'm admitted into the ALB Program or not.

redlinekid2 · June 10, 2007, 1:15am

What depressed me the most is that they should have updated their admissions information to reflect the changes that they have made to their admissions requirements. This way, anyone who has below a 3.7 GPA will know where they stand. I feel very sorry for any applicant who actually has a 3.0 GPA believing that they might have a chance for admission to any of those non-tradition Ivy League programs. I won't go any further than to say that HES open enrollment policy is the REAL provisional status for anyone who desires to engage in a rigorous college education. I only wish that Columbia GS and Penn CGS would have given me this option to test myself to see if I could handle the academic challenges expected of me within their BA programs. That is all I ever wanted. And the Harvard Extension School offers this option to potential degree candidates with no restriction to apply first before they enroll.

siserune · June 10, 2007, 3:01am

[quote]
the policy [is] the sole reason for understanding why the Extension School doesnt have to mention its college when stating the degrees it confers.

[/quote]

That's absurd, and avoids the question that was posed (would HES students be totally happy with a hypothetical new requirement to write down Extension School when listing their credentials?).

There is no policy that forces HES folk to omit the words Extension School in describing their affiliation. But in almost 100 percent of the cases where they have the option whether to specify or omit their ties to the Extension School, HES affiliates elect to make the omission. That choice lies outside the realm of the official policy and cannot be explained by pointing to policy. Nor is it relevant that HES is part of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences; it could be part of the President's office or the Harvard daycare center and that would make no difference to the point at issue.

The assertion you continue to dispute was about whether HES affiliates have the tendency to be unspecific about what admission standard is implied by their semesters at Harvard. i.e., was their degree earned after admission under the College's standards, some GSAS departmental standard, the Divinity School standard, or something else. Whether or not sakky is right about such behavior at non-HES degree programs, only at HES does one see an overwhelming incidence of such "prestige arbitrage" (try the web searches described above if you don't believe the anecdotal evidence).

These are questions of fact, and determining the correctness or not of the factual assertions does not imply any agenda to "demean" HES or protect a priestly caste of Cambridge mandarins.

[quote]
The [UC] measure was just to keep the distinction between the two schools. I do not have a problem with that.

[/quote]

No, that really ignores and blunts what the UC text says clearly is its emphasis. It is not a matter of "keeping the distinction", whatever that means; it is stated as maintaining the integrity of the degree, meaning of course the degrees from the College. They even refer to the currency (apparently in the economic sense) of Harvard degrees, and the measure can be seen as an attempt to reduce the incidence of counterfeits. Whatever the peculiarities of the UC, they are if nothing else a sample of undergraduate opinion, and an overwhelming majority considered there to be a significant integrity-of-degrees issue in this seemingly obscure matter of degree reporting.

RubenB84 · June 10, 2007, 8:25pm

[quote]
That's absurd, and avoids the question that was posed (would HES students be totally happy with a hypothetical new requirement to write down Extension School when listing their credentials?).

[/quote]

The answer is no because that would be singling out the Extension School when no other college in the FAS is forced to do that.

[quote]
There is no policy that forces HES folk to omit the words Extension School in describing their affiliation.....There is no policy that forces HES folk to omit the words Extension School in describing their affiliation.

[/quote]

Since there is no policy to force them to do so, yes they do choose to omit whatever other grads of certain colleges choose to do so. And yes it is important that it is part of the FAS. This is the issue that you cannot get around and are trying to. The Presidents office or the daycare center does not confer OFFICIAL Harvard degrees, siserune. This the point that you are failing to acknowledge. I dont even know if I should continue to argue with you if cannot understand this basic concept.

There are no facts on your end. I have disputed most of them and you keep coming back with more. The standards that HES had regarding its degree plans are as solid as any other degree plan within the FAS. Just because there are some that pass themselves off as College students (it should be noted that most of these bad seeds are NOT degree canidates at HES) does not demean the entire ALB or ALM program.

[quote]
No, that really ignores and blunts what the UC text says clearly is its emphasis. It is not a matter of "keeping the distinction", whatever that means; it is stated as maintaining the integrity of the degree, meaning of course the degrees from the College. They even refer to the currency (apparently in the economic sense) of Harvard degrees, and the measure can be seen as an attempt to reduce the incidence of counterfeits. Whatever the peculiarities of the UC, they are if nothing else a sample of undergraduate opinion, and an overwhelming majority considered there to be a significant integrity-of-degrees issue in this seemingly obscure matter of degree reporting.

[/quote]

Like Sakky stated earlier its nothing more than a turf battle and it shows the level of competition each school has towards each other. A College student would not want to be confused with an Extension Student, and I do not blame them. The level of prestige at the College is FAR beyond that of the ES. If any Extension student negates this then they are seriously disturbed. The UC just wanted to keep the distinction between the schools more apparent because they know that the College is superior in its admissions standards and prestige. There is a level of seperate but equal at Harvard, but that still doesnt translate into the "currency" of each degree. A College degree is worth far more than an ES degree, but that doesnt make the ES degree worthless.
Do not attempt to state that its to keep the level of "counterfeits" low because it would still not change the fact that HES grads cannot put COLLEGE as their school and cannot but AB on their resumes. There would still be a significant distinction between the schools in that they would still only be able to put ALB Harvard University on their resumes.
So AGAIN, siserune, what are you trying to prove? No ES grad can officially put College on their resumes, and if they did they would going against ES and FAS regulations. So there is no way that there will be "counterfeits" unless they purposefully break those regulations. The integrity of the College degree is safe and secured, whether or not extension studies is omitted.
Let's wait until the Faculty have a vote on this matter.

sakky · June 10, 2007, 8:48pm

[quote]
That's absurd, and avoids the question that was posed (would HES students be totally happy with a hypothetical new requirement to write down Extension School when listing their credentials?).

[/quote]

And similarly, most HBS exec-ed students wouldn't be particularly happy with a hypothetical new requirement to have to write down "Exec Ed" when listing their HBS credentials. They instead seem to strongly prefer saying that they "studied" at HBS without specifying what that means. How is that any different?

As another example, I have seen how former Harvard graduate engineering/CS students don't particularly enjoy listing their full credentials either, instead saying that they have a master's from Harvard without actually specifying what it is. After all, to go to Harvard for engineering/CS often times tends to invoke the question of "Why didn't you just go to MIT?", and in many cases for graduate students, the honest answer is that they didn't get in. I know a guy who's getting his master's in EE at Harvard who took many of his classes at MIT (under cross-reg), and he admitted that he would have preferred to have been a bonafide MIT EE grad student, but didn't get in.

[quote]
Whether or not sakky is right about such behavior at non-HES degree programs, only at HES does one see an overwhelming incidence of such "prestige arbitrage" (try the web searches described above if you don't believe the anecdotal evidence).

[/quote]

Even if this is right, I don't see what that proves. Look, there are some programs at Harvard that are more prominent than others. The less prominent you are, the more likely you are to attempt to ride off the general Harvard brand name, as opposed to the probably weaker brand name of your specific program. Is that really surprising?

I see that happening at all schools. For example, Yale engineering rides off the general Yale brand name. The Yale School of Management tends to ride off the general Yale brand name. In each case, that's because those particular programs are relatively less prominent Yale programs. On the other hand, Yale Law School grads will proudly assert their specific affiliation, as the law school is probably the best and most famous part of Yale.

What you are simply pointing out is the difference in strengths of the various brand names of the programs, and how all programs want to affiliate themselves with the stronger brand name when they have the choice. This is not surprising in the least.

redlinekid2 · June 11, 2007, 12:55pm

Hi Ruben,
I was re-reading your reply to my earlier comments regarding admisssion. It has bothered me a great deal because it makes it sound like I was very naive about the admissions standards at those non-traditional programs, which is not the case at all. I am well aware that anyone who wants to get into these places needs to have high academic standards and a strong academic foundation. Why would I apply to these places if I didn't have the skills to handle the classwork?

What troubles me is that I am not being given a chance to prove myself academically. I have enrolled in the most rigorous academic classes that my present school had offered. But they don't have enough of what I was interested in. In addition, all of the schools that has rejected my application told me that it was because of the "D" grade that I received in Introduction to Logic. One grade that had de-railed my chances for provisional status. Provisional status would have allowed me to showcase my academic ability in the classroom. And they didn't have confidence in my abilities because of one bad grade? I am not concerned about the other people who think that HES is a piece of cake to pass. They'll know that soon enough. I never thought for a minute that HES would take just anyone to their ALB program if they couldn't do the work or otherwise. What concerns me is the one bad grade that I have on my academic transcript that was the sole reason for getting rejected.

Even if I pass the Expo. Class and my other two classes at HES with a B+/A-, I am just afraid that my "D" from my Introduction to Logic will haunt me yet again. I have to distance myself away from this bad situation. So the more recent my academic grades, the less likely that is "D" grade will have on my chances for academic admission.

clickpunch · June 12, 2007, 7:28am

Whether we like HES and its students or not, whether the degree HES offers will grant them high salary job or not, the FACT is that the enrollment is growing exponentially and getting rave reviews about its Distance Education programs. The school offers 600+ courses and over 100+ courses capture live classes few days ago.

Also having a "Harvard" degree can definitely help with resume, but that doesn't mean that you are worth what the degree or the brand has to offer, that you are rigorous in advancing the knowledge and pursuing a higher "ivy-league" standard. To this end, it will be upto that individual. When you look at the 2007 graduation booklet, and see the HES graduates, many includes folks from top schools, even with PHDs, and multiple degrees (some even 4).

Some statistics are that there have been about 400,000+ individuals taking courses at HES and only about 1% are graduating with degrees granted (according to this year's (2007) Dean Shinagel's commencement speech).

To my knowledge, yes, ALB and AB are very different program in nature. In that matter, AB and rest of the Harvard degrees differ in that AB's definitely get their share of "praise" (watch the 2007 commencement video at <a href="http://www.commencement.harvard.edu/)%5B/url%5D">http://www.commencement.harvard.edu/)</a>). Not to mention the prestige of living in the dorm and belonging to your own "dorm", or having your own freshmen dining hall at Sanders Theatre.

By attending HES, you won't have that prestige but at the same time you wouldn't have to spend (or don't have money to spend in my case) $200,000 dollars in four years (not to mention graduate studies that should follow after).

I believe we are comparing different fruits. Extension School gears toward specific individuals like me, who need to work full time and yet don't have leisure nor money to attend schools in full time. To that extent, I praise HES and its curriculars.

Cheers!

Hello_1 · June 12, 2007, 7:01pm

Dear redlinekid2 and any other sir or madam to whom this my concern,

redlinekid2, I really don’t understand your situation very well, but what it looks like to me is that you are trying to prove yourself academically to Harvard Extension school administrators. I read that you got a “D” and that it will screw you over.

Any way, I know this online program by Stanford where you can just up for individual online classes. The college level classes they have are in math and physics. They are available to anyone, and many of the classes are very advanced, and will allow you to showcase your academic ability. The admission is pretty lax. Additionally, you can proceed at your own pace, and the classes are on computer, so you can do them from anywhere in the world.

It’s called Stanford EPGY. Just type in EPGY in Google, and you’ll find it. They are expensive, but they offer a lot of financial aid. I think their better than school or whatever you are doing currently. (They also have a logic class. Take it, and prove yourself).

Once again, I don’t really understand your situation, but you might find theses classes helpful.

Here’s the links

<a href="http://epgy.stanford.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://epgy.stanford.edu/</a>
<a href="http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/%5B/url%5D">http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/</a>
<a href="http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/physics/is%5B/url%5D">http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/physics/is</a>

Best of luck, and I hope this helps you
Hello!

redlinekid2 · June 12, 2007, 7:44pm

Thanks for the advice. However, I haven't registered for any classes at the Harvard Extention School at this time. I am currently enrolled in Pre-Calculus for the summer semester. Afterwards, I plan to enroll in Calculus I, followed by Calculus III (as non-credit) to focus on Differential Calculus(Multivariable). I want to prepare myself to enroll in the Harvard Summer School to enroll in the following class for summer 2008:

ECON S-110 Quantitative Methods in Economics and Business

Hello_1 · June 12, 2007, 8:48pm

Dear redlinekid2 and any other sir or madam to whom this my concern,

You can take thoses classes (pre calculus, Calculus I, Calculus III) and many others on EPGY. Plus, is carries the Stanford name. Also, you can go faster, and take even more advanced on EPGY.

(You don't have to be enrolled in the Harvard extension school or anything to take these classes)

Just saying.

Best of luck
Hello!

lordalabaster · June 28, 2007, 2:51pm

I will offer my opinion based on my own personal experience. I have a bachelors of science in Biology from Tufts University. During my undergrad years my classmates would elect to go to Harvard to get their premed requirements out of the way. Now whether it's Harvard college or the extension school, I can with certainty say that Tufts chemistry classes are harder than the Harvard ones based on what my friends have told me. This has to do with Harvard College's grade inflation among other things.

Nevertheless after graduation I wanted to look into the "ALM' which annoyingly stands for the masters in liberal arts. The peculiar thing about most Harvard extension courses is that their class time per week is 2 hours as opposed to Tufts courses which are 2 hours and thirty minutes per week. That extra half an hour adds up! The difference is about 7 hours that when you think about it, it's like taking three weeks off at Tufts.

The courses that do have close to three hours per week (at the extension school) are the premed courses like chemistry and physics. Now why is that?
Is it because it is Harvard's best interest not to cheapen out on the premed students so that they can do well on the MCAT? I would say yes because if premed students were to only get 2 hours of instruction per week they would get screwed on the MCAT.

If you want to get a bachelors degree it would be better to go to Umass Boston which is about the same price as Harvard Extension school but you get more instruction time. Knowledge is more important than a piece of paper. A paper will only get you a job, but true knowledge will keep your job.

If you can't even get into Umass Boston, then go for it! You can still make something out of nothing at the extension school.

ps. I did take a Biology course at the extension school and it was the easiest bio course I took. I felt like I was on vacation and was studying without any sweat beads. The professor would sometimes end half an hour early (I'd say at least one third of the semester). I mean, maybe not all biology courses are like that but you're already at a disadvantage to begin with when you only have two hours per week.

But like I said, I'm not TOTALLY bashing Harvard. if you've done poorly in high school and feel like you're changing, then go for Harvard Extension school. It's better than the community colleges, that's for sure.

If I were in the Harvard Extension Senate (if there is one) I'd petition for extra
class time.

RubenB84 · June 28, 2007, 8:18pm

Oh gosh now there's a Tufts grad bashing the extension school. What's next? Suffolk?

UMass Boston, better? Get outta here.

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