<p>Lopez: What do the non-privileged the rest of America that didn't go to Harvard or an Ivy get out of your book? Why do we care about spoiled sex-starved kids?</p>
<p>Douthat: Well, you should care because Harvard is the model for nearly all of American higher education, and many of the trends that show up at schools all around the country in academics, in campus politics, and in campus culture overall are thrown into relief by looking at the nature of the Harvard experience. You should also care because the elite schools Harvard and the dozens of prestigious places like it are still the incubator for much of the American ruling class. It's true that there are probably fewer Ivy Leaguers in positions of direct political power than there were in the 1950s (though you wouldn't know it from looking at the last decade's worth of presidential candidates), but every "soft power" field in the country from law to finance to entertainment is still dominated by graduates of a fairly exclusive network of schools. So if you want to understand the people who populate commanding heights of American life, you need to understand the culture of a place like Harvard because that's where they come from.</p>
<p>Lopez: Is Larry Summers going to weather his storm? </p>
<p>Douthat: I think he already has in the sense of keeping his job, at least. The problem he faces is less one of being forced out than of being hamstrung in his efforts to bring desperately needed changes to Harvard, particularly in the curriculum. I worry that he squandered all of his political capital in staving off the feminist assault an assault that was outrageous, but that wouldn't have happened if he didn't have such a penchant for putting his foot in his mouth. </p>
<p>Lopez: Do you, Ross Douthat, deserve to rule? Is that why you took so long at lunch?</p>
<p>Douthat: Well, those Tuesday afternoon Trilateral Commission meetings did probably play a role in my tardiness but I've been in Washington for almost three years and I still haven't been asked to join the Carlyle Group or any of the six or so Official Neocon Cabals. So I guess I'm not quite as powerful as I'd hoped.</p>
<p>Lopez: What's the coolest thing you got out of skinny dipping with Bill Buckley? Besides, well, the story.</p>
<p>Douthat: Alas, I'm sworn to secrecy. I will say this, though Skull and Bones is a lot bigger on the inside than you'd think . . . And they have the best roller coaster.
Lopez: You recently wrote about Philip Anschutz in your day job. Has he got a real shot at changing the culture?</p>
<p>Douthat: Well, changing the culture is a pretty big job even for billionaire. But in a small way, sure he does, if only because he seems to have a chance of making movies that aren't just "conservative," but actually good. Cultural change is always incremental, so the most important thing for any right-leaning artist, writer, or media mogul is to focus less on making political statements and more on producing high-quality work. And with the unfortunate (though intermittently enjoyable) exception of Sahara, everything that Anschutz has done so far in Hollywood suggests that he understands this.</p>
<p>Lopez: What was the weirdest reaction you've gotten to your book? </p>
<p>Douthat: Well, one person (who appears, briefly, under a pseudonym) came up to a party and said "I haven't read the book, so I'm not sure whether to shake your hand or punch you in the face." I haven't seen him since, so I'm not sure which option he decided on . . . But I'm keeping my head down.
Lopez: What should everyone know about Harvard? </p>
<p>Douthat: They should know that even though Harvard often seems to out-of-touch with America as a whole the "Kremlin on the Charles," as people on the Right are fond of saying there are few better places to look at if you want to understand the state of our society, and the way that the political and cultural developments of the last thirty years have worked themselves out. On the one hand, Harvard like America is a fantastically wealthy place, a pioneer in science, medicine and technology, and possessed of an enviable degree of power and influence. People from around the globe flock to Harvard Yard, as they do to the U.S. generally and it's a fantastically diverse place in many ways, having successfully integrated people of every color and creed into its micro-society. </p>
<p>So it has many of early-21st century America's strengths but many of the country's weaknesses as well. Its diversity is skin-deep: like the country as a whole, Harvard is actually getting more class-stratified, not less so, both within the school and in how well the student body reflects the broader society. Its scientific successes have been balanced by drift and even rot in the humanities, which mirror the larger rot in American popular culture; its formidable clout is undercut by a deep insecurity about its purpose and it founding ideals; and perhaps most importantly, its unprecedented wealth has too often fostered a spirit of materialism, greed, and success-at-all-costs. Harvard doesn't "hate America," as one conservative writer once put it it is modern America, with all the good and bad that being modern America entails.</p>
<p>Lopez: You owe me a few long lunches.</p>
<p>Douthat: Oh, Kathryn, I owe you far more than that. (For instance, that stapler you "lost" that summer? It's sitting right here on my desk. And the NR bound volumes from 1967-85? Part of my library . . .)</p>
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