<p>The one thing the arts supplements do that is similar to athletic recruitment is the possibility to get people outside the admissions office involved in evaluating the applicant. If the orchestra director tells you that this applicant is a world-class French horn player who should be admitted, that probably carries some weight.</p>
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<p>Even students who are not artists or athletes sometimes get likely letters. My son got two, from Amherst and Williams, and Silverturtle I believe got two from Columbia and Brown.</p>
<p>performersmom,</p>
<p>I am referring to this quote in the link you supplied from Dartmouth:</p>
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<p>You put a spin in your posts about ED with regard to arts applicants, as well as likely letters. This statement on Dartmouth’s site is not about arts applicants in relation to ED or to likely letters. I was writing about what Dartmouth’s site says, not what you wrote in your posts. </p>
<p>As a point of reference, you wrote:</p>
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<p>You are referring to likely letters and to ED admissions. My post was not responding to those topics and was merely discussing what Dartmouth’s site says (which I quoted now in this post).</p>
<p>Dartmouth indeed has faculty review arts supplements and so a very strong arts applicant can get a boost in the holistic admissions process. As I wrote, this is not the same as being recruited. This has nothing to do with likely letters or ED. Also, as LorenIpsum wrote, ANYONE can get a likely letter from Dartmouth and they don’t have to be an athlete or in the arts.</p>
<p>radannie…I have never run into you on CC before (but see you are not new here). In nine years on CC, I have never run into anyone from my kids’ high school and so it is very unusual. I don’t know who you are (maybe you know who I am?) My kids graduated in 2004 + 2005 and so did not overlap your D it seems (though my kids were both in the music program which sounds like your D is too) Those results in the senior class are the best I have ever heard of from our high school!! The year my D went to Brown, nobody else in the class got into any Ivy (or MIT). Congrats to your D! (I did interview one of the MIT admits, but didn’t know about these other results as I am removed from the HS scene these days)</p>
<p>PS…both my girls were in the jazz band which sounds like your D is too. Also, like you, we are middle class. Brown was very generous with D but unfortunately, the new financial aid initiatives which got wayyy better for the middle class, started the year after she left. No complaints as she got good aid but she’d have gotten amazing aid now.</p>
<p>radannie…I now realize who you are (you likely realize who I am since you mentioned our kids went to the same HS). I never knew you went to Hah-vahd! (I went to grad school at Harvard, btw). Your older D was in Annie with both my girls way back when. I recently saw your Harvard bound D in the school musical (and did last year too). Did not know she was Harvard bound! It is so unusual to see anyone from this region on CC, let alone I now realize you live in my same teeny tiny town! :D</p>
<p>But to bring it back to this thread somewhat…my girls and your girls have lots in common…coming from a no name rural public (the same one) and were very active in BOTH the sports and performing arts programs at the HS (did not specialize in one or the other…in case of my older D and your Harvard bound D)…which goes against what many on CC think…that you have to excel in one area when they excelled in several. Also, like your D, my kids’ high school academic careers were out of the ordinary and did not follow the typical path. I hope people can see that kids like this with no big hook, who are white, from no name schools, who are good at several things can get into elite schools. I realize, however, that your D2 is a legacy but your D1 also went to a very selective school too). My kids were not legacies at where they ended up, but neither are the kids you mentioned who got into elite colleges from our HS this year either, besides your daughter. </p>
<p>Many congrats in any case!</p>
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<p>Here ya go. A new hook for the upcoming Class of 2020. Local realtors phones might start ringing off the hook. No more Suzuki or Hagwon torture. No more summer programs. All you need is to convince SoozieVt or Radannie to spill the beans about the location of this rural area. </p>
<p>A nice donation or a fat check might work. :)</p>
<p>How do we know it is not Soozie’s handiwork that got them in although she seems to be equally surprised that the school got this many admissions.</p>
<p>So now I have two people to visit next time I’m up in your neck of the woods! (And who knows radannie might know my brothers who were at Harvard in the early 80s - I was gone by then.) I don’t think it ever hurts to excel in more than one area - but most people can’t excel if they spread themselves too thin.</p>
<p>It’s only in the last few years that I’ve heard of non-athletes getting likely letters, maybe the admissions officers heard the grumbling?</p>
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<p>Maybe it’s the tendency of even tippy-top students to now apply to 10 or 12 colleges, rather than 4 or 5, as was the case not that many years ago? I wonder if they target those students who are desirable yet less likely to commit, based on yield analysis from previous years.</p>
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<p>LoremIpsum, do you have any idea how they found your son, a graduating junior/senior?</p>
<p>The point of likely letters is to stop the athlete from signing a contract with a scholarship school. I don’t think there is a parallel need with non-athletes, especially when Harvard already has a 77% yield and is bringing back EA.</p>
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<p>I can assure you I wasn’t involved at all and don’t even know which kids at the high school she is referring to (except one who I don’t know personally but coincidentally was assigned to interview for my alma mater, Tufts, as I am a volunteer alum interviewer, and the student let me know where he is heading in the fall). NONE of the advisees that I have evr worked with live in my state in fact…</p>
<p>And yes, I am VERY surprised at the acceptances radannie mentions, and not because I don’t think our little HS doesn’t have qualified kids to elite colleges, but because very few apply to or are admitted each year. I think typically one or two go to Ivies per year and a handful go to other highly selective schools.</p>
<p>Does a likely letter always have to be preapplication? I have heard of people getting them in February, well after the application season although athletes do get them in August or September or whenever.</p>
<p>Soozie - People have been attributing the explosion in applications to more per person. Sounds like kids from your school figured out how to make use of the common app and also the great aid if they can get in.</p>
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<p>Texaspg…I can’t say why more kids this year from our HS got into elite/Ivies than in the years my kids applied to college, and don’t think I would attribute it to kids putting in more applications. Maybe more applied to elite schools than in the past. Maybe there was a heavier concentration of really top qualified kids in this year’s senior class. Maybe once Harvard or Yale took a kid from our high school in recent years, they were willing to look seriously at applicants from our high school in subsequent years (I do believe this happens). For example, two years before D1 graduated, the val got into Brown and another kid got into Penn. My kid, two years later, who was val, got into Brown and Penn. She was waitlisted at Princeton as was the sal the year before her. She was deferred/denied at Yale and I don’t recall anyone from the HS going to Yale in the several years preceding my kids at that high school. Subsequently, I know a kid has gone to Yale and a kid has gone to Harvard, another one or two to Columbia and to Brown and so once someone broke the ice, it seems that the same colleges were willing to take someone again from our HS (haven’t heard of any at Princeton yet). NONE of these colleges send reps to our HS. Many of these schools are not even at the college fair in our state, or at least were not when my kid applied. When my kid applied to Penn, there was no alum interviewer for the region either.</p>
<p>The issuance of athlete likely letters usually corresponds to the NCAA national letter of intent signing dates, which vary by sport, but generally take place in Nov, Dec, Feb and Apr. See, [National</a> Letter of Intent](<a href=“http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/nli/nli]National”>http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/nli/nli)</p>
<p>For example, the NCAA allows a pole vaulter to sign a scholarship contract on Feb. 2, so if he is offered a contract by Stanford on that date, he can go to the Harvard coach and say, I really want Harvard, so I won’t sign with Stanford if you can give me some assurance I am getting into Harvard.</p>
<p>Bringing back EA will obviate the need for Harvard to issue many of the likely letters, as most of the athletes will be admitted EA instead.</p>
<p>My older D happens to be home right now. I was just telling her about this thread (she does not read CC). As she was coaching a team at her Ivy this year, she said that they do not lower the standards much for athletes. She said that any recruited athlete must be over a certain Academic Index to even be considered. That AI differs from sport to sport. </p>
<p>The way I see it with athletes, as I have posted before, is that their academics must be in the ballpark for the standards for the college. When a college has a range for AI for accepting all students, SOME admitted students are going to be at the bottom of that range. But it is not like the school will accept any old academic profiles to get an athlete in the Ivy League. They must be in the ballpark of the AI index range to even be considered.</p>
<p>Princeton started sending out likely letters to outstanding academic students after discontinuing EA (I read it in an article where they interviewed the President of Princeton). It was to make sure they do not lose top students to other schools. I have seen Dartmouth and Cornell send out likely letters to non-athletes.</p>
<p>It would make sense for colleges to send out likely letters to non-athletes whom they fear might choose an ED college instead.</p>
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<p>I would like to say that I was NOT arguing against colleges using a holistic system of evaluating applicants. To me, holistic means looking beyond test scores and grades to things like artistic achievement, motivation, etc. This is done by reading essays and looking at resumes by colleges. An evaluation can be both blind and holistic. I would imagine colleges would want essay submissions and personal resumes, even in a blinded system. Also, I would like to say that the absolute necessity of affirmative action programs is debatable.</p>
<p>I do not see how knowing someone’s name and personal info is so important to a holistic admissions process. Parents and race are things one does not choose. Thus, being a certain person cannot be considered a merit. Merit is based on deeds, on things you worked on. Schools that ostensibly select the “best candidates” </p>
<p>Lastly, I would like to dismiss the “love it or leave it” argument. No college that I know of has blind admissions the way I described. Also, it is important for people to strive to improve their society by making earnest suggestions. I do not claim to be able to end controversy over admissions, but I think trying to eliminate bias in admissions would be an excellent first step to making education more accessible to all.</p>
<p>I’m glad they look into a student’s personal background because it gives a CONTEXT for the application. Admissions is not simply about MERIT. If a student is first generation, that context is important when viewing their merits. If a student has come from a privileged background, it provides a context for the kinds of experiences he/she had available compared to a kid who might not be able to attend a summer program and had to work at McDonalds over the summer. Context matters. As well, someone’s cultural or racial heritage brings a certain quality to campus. You may want to cover up the name and the parents’ names, occupations, educations, etc. but even if you did, essays will show some of these things. I had a student who got into elite colleges, who while having a Jewish last name, is actually Hispanic and lived in Puerto Rico. One of her main essays was all about being both Jewish and Hispanic in Puerto Rico. Another essay had to do with her theater work in the projects (she was privileged and went to private school). So, you could cut out her name and race and all that stuff but lots of this stuff came across in her essays. This person was well traveled and had attended many expensive summer programs over the years. Some other kid in Puerto Rico may be of other means and would have none of those experiences on the resume. As an adcom (and even as a college advisor which is my occupation), I would want the full context in evaluating a student. Then, I evaluate their “merits” in context of their school, their community, their family, and other personal background.</p>
<p>One more example…I would view the SAT score of a kid whose is first generation and low income and went to a low performing high school differently than a kid who is wealthy and has well educated parents and went to an elite private high school. A certain score for the first kid may be considered high under his/her circumstances (not to mention no paid SAT prep or tutors), and might be considered low for the second kid.</p>