Harvard "letters of intent" for top mathematicians and musicians?

Parents Forum
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<p>When Harvard announced its decision to end early action this year, it hastened to add that it would continue to use likely letters to recruit top athletes who would otherwise face very strong pressures to accept "exploding offers" of athletic scholarships at other schools.</p>

<p>
[quote]
But Fitzsimmons said there were no plans to eliminate the likely letter practice. And Nichols Family Director of Athletics Robert L. Scalise said yesterday that the advanced notification was a necessary evil in the college recruiting process.</p>

<p>By giving students “at least some guidance as to whether he or she is a strong enough candidate to get in,” likely letters allow athletes to refuse what the College considers premature offers from other schools, Scalise said.
...
But Fitzsimmons admitted that he would prefer that even likely letters not exist.</p>

<p>“I wish we didn’t have to respond to these unfortunate pressures placed on people, but we do live in the real world,” he said.

[/quote]

Source: Crimson 9/29/06
<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=514592%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=514592&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>However, in a possible new wrinkle, today's Crimson has an editorial endorsing the policy to abandon the Early Action program, but suggesting that Harvard plans to use rather mysterious "letters of intent" to top mathematicians and musicians as well as athletic candidates.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Though there has been concern in some quarters that ending early admissions will cause Harvard to lose top applicants to peer schools that have retained early admissions policies, we believe the risk to be minimal. The admissions office seems to be combating this concern with “letters of intent,” missives sent to top athletic candidates, mathematicians, and musicians in advance of official admissions decisions expressing interest in their candidacy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Source: Crimson editorial 11/1/07
<a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=520440%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=520440&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This particular usage of the term "letter of intent" in today's editorial seems quite novel. Until now, as far as I know, "letter of intent" always referred to a letter signed by a STUDENT committing to attend a school and play on its sports team in exchange for an athletic scholarship.</p>

<p>It's entirely possible the Crimson made an error, and was referring to the continuing use of likely letters, or perhaps "letter of intent" at Harvard is indeed some new term of art for something altogether different from either the traditional "letter of intent" signed by athletes or the traditional likely letters signed by college officials.</p>

<p>If the Crimson meant to refer to the continuing practice of likely letters, it would indeed be interesting if Harvard is continuing to use them for anyone other than athletes, since they justified this practice only in light of the unreasonable pressures that athletes face, in the form of exploding offers of athletic scholarships from coaches at other schools.</p>

<p>As far as I know, top mathematicians and top musicians do not face the pressure of exploding offers elsewhere, so Harvard's previous justification for retaining likely letters for athletes does not seem to apply in their case.</p>

<p>The Crimson's definition of "letter of intent," a "missive expressing interest in their candidacy" sounds rather vague and mysterious. If it's just a general "we'd like you to apply letter" of the sort which Harvard sends out tens of thousands every year, that's pretty meaningless. Then again, even true "likely letters" have sometimes mystified their recipients, who have occasionally posted to CC in the past, asking "What does this really mean?"</p>

<p>So much for transparency....</p>

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<p>Harvard has used likely letters outside of athletics in the past. It doesn't surprise me that this will continue.</p>

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<p>The new term "letter of intent" probably is a Crimson writer's mistake. The article makes an interesting testable prediction: </p>

<p>


</p>

<p>If Harvard ends up enrolling a class of 2012 with no lower "hard" stats (grade averages, class ranks, test scores) but with noticeably more low-income students (and possibly more URM students), then it can fairly regard its experiment with single-deadline admissions as a success.</p>

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<p>This is only putting on paper what is done all over the country. Show up at top LAC for a visit with something they want and you will leave with a verbal yes. And they will work hard to close the deal. </p>

<p>The competition for mathematics students is increasing. The recruiting is not much different than athletics for young women except there are no rules. If you have leverage use it. Demand a written commitment from the school. Get a written commitment form the student. This is what Harvard is reacting to.</p>

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<p>I agree, but I also think the policy may need some time to settle, so that we won't know what all the effects will be until we've seen several cycles. Unless there's some kind of disaster this year (yield drops through the floor, or something like that), I think they ought to give it a few years to ripen before they finalize it.</p>

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<p>Harvard is a private institution. It's not obligated to be 'transparent'.</p>

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<p>Harvard, Princeton, and U of VA moving in tandem in abandoning an early admission round is what makes this especially interesting. Everyone will be watching their admission results this year. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=519210%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=519210&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.harvardprincetonuva.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.harvardprincetonuva.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>
[quote]
The competition for mathematics students is increasing. The recruiting is not much different than athletics for young women except there are no rules. If you have leverage use it. Demand a written commitment from the school. Get a written commitment form the student. This is what Harvard is reacting to.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree that likely letters have long been used for students other than athletes, but it's a one-way street. </p>

<p>Aside from ED agreements and athletic scholarship agreements, colleges are not permitted to demand commitments from students prior to May 1. </p>

<p>It would be disingenuous for Harvard to state that they are only reluctantly maintaining their likely letter policy solely because the exploding offer situation for athletes puts them under impossible pressure otherwise, IF they are also extending such letters to students who are not under such pressure.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The competition for mathematics students is increasing. The recruiting is not much different than athletics for young women except there are no rules.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There are rules! NACAC rules specify that colleges must give students until May 1 to make a decision, with specific exceptions for ED and athletes. There is no exception for mathematicians and musicians.</p>

<p>The kinds of mathematicians Harvard is trying to recruit do receive full merit scholarships from places like Caltech, Chicago, Duke, and WUSTL, but I am confident that such schools do not make exploding offers to mathematicians--those schools give their merit offers through formal letters which comply with NACAC policy and allow the students until May 1 to make up their minds.</p>

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<p>Yes, I have never, ever heard of exploding offers for top math students. It would be interesting to know what gets a student on the top math student list in the first place.</p>

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<p>I should hasten to point out that today's Crimson editorial gives no clear evidence that Harvard is still giving likely letters to non-athletes. They do not quote any officials on this current practice.</p>

<p>The only on-record quotes from Harvard officials were made last fall, when Harvard officials stated that they would reluctantly continue likely letters for athletes, because they were forced to respond to the unreasonable pressures on athletes.</p>

<p>The Crimson editorial simply states that the "admissions office seems to be combating this concern" about losing top mathematicians and musicians with these mysteriously vague and undefined "letters of intent."</p>

<p>Such letters may or may not be likely letters as understood in the past. And weasel words like "seems to be combating" suggests that Crimson has not gotten official confirmation about Harvard policy on such letters (aside from the likely letters to athletes.)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Harvard is a private institution. It's not obligated to be 'transparent'.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Harvard receives large public subsidies, both explicitly (in the form of research grants and Federal student aid) and implicitly (in the form of tax-exemptions and the tax-deductibility of contributions). Moreover, Harvard's motto is Veritas ("Truth") and even wholly private businesses are subject to truth-in-advertising laws. </p>

<p>To state with great fanfare that they are doing away with early admissions and going to a single admissions time-table, with the only exceptions being reluctant ones for athletes under the pressure of exploding offers, would certainly be questionable advertising if they are indeed continuing to use likely letters for other categories of candidates not under such pressures.</p>

<p>But again, I should hasten to point out--the Crimson could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time!) or it could be that these mysterious "letters of intent" are simply very friendly personal letters from professors encouraging them to apply, which is an entirely different matter.</p>

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<p>" It would be interesting to know what gets a student on the top math student list in the first place." tokenadult, thanks, i have that question too. </p>

<p>........what minimum score - PSAT, SAT, ACT (Math) would fit the bill? and in SAT (Math) subject tests )? </p>

<p>what other criteria?</p>

<p>and criteria for the musicians?....(top musician student list)</p>

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<p>I would hazard the guess that performance on the AMC</a> tests may be one, but perhaps not the only, criterion by which top math students are identified.</p>

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<p>In addition to the performance on the AMC, I would add state math competitions. In our state, kids that have taken top places in that competition over a period of few years are going to Harvard, MIT, Cal Tech and other top notch math programs.
I don't think that SAT number matters that much. I imagine it has to be high, but I do not see a huge difference between 760 and 800.</p>

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<p>I bet that we're not talking about a whole lot of students here, either. If any.</p>

<p>I doubt the SATs enter into it at all. There are thousands of kids with 800 math SAT I scores, and probably hundreds (at least) with that and 800 SAT II / Calculus BC 5. The AMC probably does come into play, but only by correlation. (The type of students Harvard is recruiting probably took it, and probably did noticeably well on it.) I bet that if a student is a good enough mathematician to be the object of recruiting by Harvard, he or she is on the radar screen in a number of ways, because he or she is already present in some meaningful way in the math world.</p>

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<p>My take (and I could be very wrong):</p>

<p>Harvard is sending likely letters to top math students and musicians as well as top athletes.These likely letters are non-binding on the students who have until May 1 to respond.</p>

<p>Harvard is sending these letters to students who are USAMO, IMO caliber, not even high AIME scorers, and definitely not to students whose sole math qualification is 800 on the SAT Math 1 or 2. Similarly, in music, being concert master of the Junior symphony orchestra that made it to state will not get a student such a letter. The putative pool of recipients is quite small.</p>

<p>If I am correct, Harvard is doing so because it wants to be able to continue being the college which attracts top math students (or top musicians) and is afraid that an early admission to competitor schools will lure these students away; even if they have until May 1 to respond to these competitor schools, they will commit themselves emotionally before even mid-March; or having heard in mid-December they are in, they will not bother applying to Harvard. </p>

<p>So, despite the lack of exploding offers to mathematicians and musicians, there may indeed be a reason for the tactic reported in the Crimson. Remember though that the Crimson article was vague and that my interpretation of the situation can be wrong.</p>

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<p>With regard to the scholar-musicians they would like to attract at Harvard, they are competing, amongst the Ivy League schools, with Yale and Columbia, which have programs with conservatories (as does Harvard) and lots of talented musicians. I would imagine the number of letters is small, though</p>

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<p>Replying to Marite and to JHS, yes, the pool of students who are being recruited in quite that way is small. Perfect scorers on the SAT I math section, or even joint perfect scorers on the SAT II Math Level 2 test and the AP calculus BC test, are too numerous to generate such a recruiting effort. USAMO qualifiers (who number in the dozens if we consider only students who have qualified before their senior year) may indeed constitute one nationally identifiable smallish pool of math-oriented students who would be targeted for specialized recruiting. </p>

<p>Thousands of students get invitations to apply from Harvard. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_34/b3998441.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_34/b3998441.htm&lt;/a> </p>

<p>In previous years, AFTER some students applied in the regular round, they got likely letters on academic grounds. Perhaps this year there may--or there may not--be something sent out to a smallish number of students that reads in the manner of a likely letter even before a complete admission file is submitted by this year's new, later deadline. But if so, that would be for a rather limited number of students.</p>

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<p>"Harvard receives large public subsidies, both explicitly (in the form of research grants and Federal student aid) and implicitly (in the form of tax-exemptions and the tax-deductibility of contributions). Moreover, Harvard's motto is Veritas ("Truth") and even wholly private businesses are subject to truth-in-advertising laws. </p>

<p>Wisteria,
This is an elite institution that can run itself almost any way it wants, including using a disingenuous-sounding admissions policy. It's been doing this -- rather successfully -- for over 350 years. It's Harvard. It's not state U. Get over it. (And I mean that nicely.)</p>

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<p>In Washington State it isn’t that hard. Number of girls in 2006 who scored 750 or greater on the SAT is 164. There are 290 high schools. The pool gets small in a hurry.</p>

<p>As for rules see Alabama, Oklahoma or any other big time football program. Colleges in general don’t seem all that concerned about laws why should they worry about rules? I just don’t any difference between lack of institutional control at a university hospital and a football program.</p>