<p>We all know "financial resources" is BS so I'm just going to leave that out of the equation.</p>
<p>Well in terms of fundraising per capita, Stanford far, far outshines Princeton. It's only a matter of time before we pass Princeton in terms of endowment per capita considering we're fundraising four times as much, and spending it too. Alumni giving rate is entirely irrelevant; it doesn't matter how many snazzy mailings the Class of 1950 gets. Stanford pulls in far more than Princeton does; $105 million from Nike is far better than 50,000 $50 donations just to jazz up that sterling 61%.</p>
<p>As for the "professional school placement" BS, I presume you are referring to the horribly biased WSJ rankings, which don't include Stanford GSB or SLS, both deserving schools. HYP get a tremendous boost over Princeton by excluding Stanford's top-three law and business schools. Without those, it's not an accurate indicator. If you have a better measure, I'm looking forward to reading it. </p>
<p>It's hard to contend that Stanford is less "selective" than Princeton, considering the SCEA versus ED differences and higher RD matriculation rate at Stanford, as well as a lower RD acceptance rate. More applications, too. I don't really think NMS types really matter; Stanford outdoes Princeton for the Intel, RSI, etc., types and that is a far better indicator of getting the very best students rather than kids who were lucky and scored 220+ on the PSAT, a test that doesn't matter.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that Stanford should be at the top. But fact of the matter is, Princeton loses cross-admits to Yale, MIT and Harvard for sure, and probably Stanford.</p>
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I'm not saying that Stanford should be at the top. But fact of the matter is, Princeton loses cross-admits to Yale, MIT and Harvard for sure, and probably Stanford.
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<p>Question about that, though: With regards to Princeton, aren't comparison of cross admit numbers totally invalid, since it has ED instead of SCEA? The students that like Princeton the most would never even be included since they're locked in. SCEA applicants to HYS, however, would be included because they'd apply to Princeton RD, but in most cases, go to HYS (since that's the school they're enthusiastic about). Doesn't this put Princeton at a pretty severe disadvantage?</p>
<p>Generally speaking, cross admit number - though not THE determining factor - are a fairly important thing to look at, I think, but I've never understood how you can compare ED schools with EA schools.</p>
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Question about that, though: With regards to Princeton, aren't comparison of cross admit numbers totally invalid, since it has ED instead of SCEA? The students that like Princeton the most would never even be included since they're locked in.
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<p>Yeah, you know why Princeton locks in their applicants? Because they have to. Otherwise, they'd lose too many early applicants to the other schools.</p>
<p>Harvard Yale and Stanford all went to SCEA to prove that they were promoting student freedom. Princeton couldn't follow the act because they knew they'd get burned.</p>
<p>Well, gallo, yield on SCEA admits is 88 or 89% for Yale and Stanford, so that isn't a huge difference from the 99% one can expect from ED. </p>
<p>Princeton is actually at a huge advantage--they get to keep kids who might have applied and gotten into Yale, Stanford, etc. in the RD round, while YS has to brave the fact that a lot of their early admits will still apply elsewhere.</p>
<p>Is there any stats about students accepted to HYPS and where students choose when accepted to multiple schools...if there are, that is the most telling since students know best - this can be seen as a pretty accurate reflection of school quality, as HYPSM as a whole gets the majority of applicants from next tier elite schools, including Penn Duke Columbia Brown etc.</p>
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Yeah, you know why Princeton locks in their applicants? Because they have to. Otherwise, they'd lose too many early applicants to the other schools.
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Yes ED and SCEA makes a difference, but I dont think that large of a difference. I disagree with your statement as unlike Yale, Harvard and Stanford where students applying SCEA apply just for the hell of it as many are undecided where they want to go. When applying ED to Princeton, you understand you have to go and MOST LIKELY that is your top choice and nothing will really sway you. And besides, a lot of ed applicants are alumni and recruited athletes. I don't think Princeton's yield will drop that much with a switch from ED to SCEA, perhaps 2-3 percentage points but it would pick up after that. But seems like the administration doesn't want to take the risk.</p>
<p>But zephyr, is there a true reason that could make any of the HYPS schools top the list and not the others? Is one of these schools so clearly better than the other? And does this ranking really affect you that much that you have to get heated? Damn, cuz to me, if princeton fell to second and harvard stayed at one, i would have transferred immediately.</p>
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.if there are, that is the most telling since students know best - this can be seen as a pretty accurate reflection of school quality,
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Not really, many factors come into play. Stanford for one attracted many students from my high school over HYP because its...well warm? west coast? Location is huge. There is no study as to what percetnage chose what school over the other with the reason stated. You can't look at cross-admits and conclude a correlation to academic quality. Boston>Princeton and New Haven as a college town. Palo Alto>all in weather. Prestige is a huge clouder.</p>
<p>It's only a matter of time before we pass Princeton in terms of endowment per capita</p>
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<p>in order to pass princeton, stanford would have to raise about $25 BILLION dollars - in other words, about the amount that harvard has saved up over 370 years - oh, and that's only if princeton never raises another penny in the interim. so, don't hold your breath.</p>
<p>Harvard Yale and Stanford all went to SCEA to prove that they were promoting student freedom.</p>
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<p>yale went to SCEA because it was getting killed (relative to its peers) under ED. harvard retreated to SCEA from an open EA system, which had better promoted "student freedom" than its new one. i guess harvard, like george bush's terrorists, "hates freedom."</p>
<p>even better, they should all move to a single-deadline system. but this will never happen without the leadership and cooperation of the NCAA, which sets the athletic recruiting calendar that necessitates at least some early period at the ivies and other top schools.</p>
<p>Yes, I definitely agree that all colleges should go EA, though I think SCEA is the most realistic compromise solution at the end.</p>
<p>It's actually a pity Princeton's still ED. I know bright people who've applied ED to Princeton, but also many who've got Princeton as their #1 choice but don't apply ED so as to keep options open...often the latter are "seduced" by their SCEA school come May (often Harvard or Stanford).</p>
<p>SCEA would be win-win for princeton: for its applicants, who could delay their decision and compare financial aid offers; and for its admissions office, which would have several thousand more and better applicants to choose from. of course, it would be no gain at all for regular applicants, who get screwed equally either way.</p>
<p>Gallo_Pallatino, I totally agree with you. My friend chose SCEA Yale, even though Princeton was his first choice. He got scared away from ED. In the end, it just hurt him, because I'm sure he could've gotten in had he applied ED to Princeton. Instead, he screwed up an pulled a C in math 1st semester senior year; now he goes to Duke. Go figure.</p>
<p>well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. but for the college admissions community, of which this site and its patrons (including you) are a part, this is the biggest news day of the year.</p>
<p>Princeton is just about the only other school that I would've seen myself go to were I given the free choice to pick any college I wanted... it is an amazing place. Any comment like that is just... ahh w/e.</p>
<p>I'm repping the applicants when I make these comments f.scottie. I wasnt saying this yesterday, so maybe it's just that I just finished reading "The Overachievers" and it's affecting my thinking. I just hate the Harvard-Princeton bickering, it's amazing the level of the nsults I've heard from each party which you wouldn't expect from someone of ivy caliber. Just my 2 cents.</p>