I don’t particularly care about Harvard’s yield; I don’t drink Ivy Koolaid, I don’t worship at the feet of Ivy grads. That said, I certainly don’t have any angst about the fact that 10 internet goons-in-training got busted for their disgusting online behavior and won’t be walking the hallowed halls. If they are so dang intelligent and worthy of greatness, they will find a way to overcome this very small bump in their roads.
@lindagaf @planner03 If December, SCEA admits, not ED. So they could possibly have had other acceptances.
It doesn’t matter what YOU believe. Here’s William Fitizsimmons in his own words: http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/harvarddean-part1/
And that’s why their acceptance was rescinded, as their actions called into question their character, maturity and “fit” for an institution that places personal qualities ahead of test scores and GPA’s.
@OHMomof2 , yes, I forgot about that, good point. Even so, it’s unlikely that many of them of that group had multiple acceptances to tippy top colleges.
Correct, but it’s also likely that more than one of those students did NOT have any other acceptances at all.
Last April, I received a private message from one of the students involved and s/he had not bothered to apply RD to any other college after being accepted SCEA. So, when Harvard withdrew the acceptance, I imagine they were scrambling to find a place at a state university that has rolling admissions through the summer months.
@gibby Possible to provide the mindset, thoughts of said student? Was s/he sorry? Understand what they’d done? Take responsibility for what they’d done? I certainly understand if you are unable if you feel it will break a confidence, but I sure would like to get into the minds of those involved a bit.
@Lindagaf You cant say someone does not deserve privacy because you find them disgusting. This is the standard leftist argument that says “I don’t like him so he can’t say what he wants to say or be entitled to any privacy or rights >:(” Everyone deserves privacy and is allowed to speak their mind in it, no matter YOUR personal feelings on it. Now, the argument that they drug Harvard’s name in the mud is sound, but really can we control everything related to a college? Can we say every single person of the 80,000 members of the Berkeley meme page controls and influences the brand image of UC Berkeley? No, so stop making a straw-man out of the issue.
@crimsonmom2019: Yes, the student was sorry and contrite – and obviously concerned and anxious. They said they had apologized profusely to the administration admitting their behavior was stupid, immature and they really didn’t believe in what they had posted. They even offered to meet with the administrative board, apologize in person, etc.
Sure glad it was Harvard and not Upenn.
Approximately 4 years ago the valedictorian at my kids HS got admitted to both Stanford and Harvard. He did something stupid like this. Both Harvard and Stanford rescinded his admission. He was an extremely bright stem student. He wound up going to Berkeley. I think the kids in this case got what they deserved.
@ANormalSeniorGuy You can’t use a strawman in the first half of your post, and then accuse another poster of using a strawman…
Also this isn’t a political forum, so the generalized attacks on “leftists” aren’t really necessary.
It’s always about the imaginary leftists. This is about civility and respect, which these students did not have. It’s not about what you do when people are watching but what you do when they aren’t. The military teaches that to every 17 or 18 year old recruit at basic training.
Here’s the thing. These were offensive memes. I am shocked at the descriptions that I have read about them. But two issues arise: First, what should Harvard have done, and second, how quickly should each one of us judge those young adult’s character? On the first point, one need only look back one year to see that even the great administrators in Harvard Admissions found this issue to be thorny…complicated. Last year, much the same thing occurred and Harvard Admissions did nothing. Nothing. Why? Because this is a tough problem. Because this conduct, although NOT good, does NOT necessarily lead to the conclusion that these young adults lack the character to attend Harvard University. Life is complicated and we ALL make mistakes. These memes were intended to be private and intended to shock.
The second issue is also complicated - it can be SO easy to judge the misconduct of other people’s children. If you are throwing stones, be careful. This misconduct is far more pervasive than you might think. What most of us consider too serious to be mocked, or too awful to generate laughter, MANY young people will laugh and share. It does NOT mean that each one of these teens is lacking in moral values or worse. Sometimes it is the very awfulness that provokes the laughter and sharing. All I am pleading for is some sense of recognition that we do NOT know anything about these young adults. We do not know their parents. All we know is that they engaged in behavior that most adults (folks in their thirties and older) find disturbing. But people make mistakes. Harvard responded with NOTHING last year and EVERYTHING this year. Why the flipflop?
I spoke with a neighborhood teen this afternoon about this - here was one comment - is Harvard monitoring the online gaming to see how many kill shots the accepted students have per minute on one of those violent video games? (And are WE wondering if those kids are murderers in real life?) We can NOT know what is in the minds of these teens and experts on that age group will tell us that this tendency to be entertained, in some sense, by things that shock is not unusual.
On the other hand, let this be a lesson to us all - virtually NOTHING in the electronic realm is private. NOTHING. Not a text, an email, a share. NOTHING.
@gibby Thanks for your post sharing this information. Each one of these young adults’ entire life trajectory has been altered. Did they engage in misconduct? For sure seems like they did (although not one of us knows the details beyond the one clearly offensive meme about the pinata). Do they deserve this punishment? If the answer were a resounding yes, then Harvard would have taken SOME action a year ago when similar misconduct was discovered. Frankly, having this sort of punishment meted out in such a seemingly random way (one year it is the death penalty when the year before NO punishment at all), does NOT teach the appropriate lesson. Sure, the sweeping lesson to be VERY careful about one’s use of electronic media, that lesson is clear. But to learn the connection between action and consequences requires a more nuanced but consistent response.
i feel SO badly for these young adults even while I too am distressed by the described memes. i also find myself, as a parent with my own children, thinking to myself: there but for the grace of god go I. Don’t any one of you out there think for a MOMENT that your beloved child would NEVER make any sort of mistake that could be considered a capital crime, nearly randomly, on any given day, in this day and age. We all make mistakes even when warned by parents. I am so sorry this happened but grateful that it was publicized so that others are aware and can learn from the debacle… .
^^ Correct. Which is why it’s recommended that high school students applying to college CHANGE their name and searchable photos on Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat etc to something innocuous, such as an American Indian name like “Brave elk running through a stream.”
I think that the fact that this happened last year, even though there was no consequence meted out, should have put the current crop of kids on notice that their behavior could have consequences this year.
Granted, kids are kids and even exceptionally smart kids are still kids but there are lines you don’t cross. I can only presume that the other memes (and I confess that I have zippo clue of what a meme is or how it works) were even worse than the pinata one. I don’t get how joking about the Holocaust can be humorous but there was a movie called “life is beautiful” that did just that and won Oscars. Maybe a warning, mandated community service and a deferred admission to the spring would have been more appropriate? Maybe there were more kids involved and the 10 whose admissions were rescinded were the ringleaders, for lack of a better word, and they are being made an example of.
I think that those who say “there but for… go I or my child” are right.
@techmom99 I don’t know if you have seen Life is Beautiful, but it never jokes about the Holocaust. It’s all about a father trying to help his son through a terrible situation, and any humor is all his way of shielding his son. It’s a wonderful film and I highly recommend it.
Getting back to the kids, no, they don’t deserve to have their lives ruined forever. I don’t think anyone thinks that. But they KNEW what they were doing, which is why I don’t have much sympathy for them. They felt free to succumb to degrading and hateful behavior because they thought no one was watching. So I think the punishment was just and deserved. And I would say the same if it was my kid.
I think Harvard responded as they did because enough is enough. We all have to stop turning a blind eye to hateful speech, memes, whatever. There have been many unacceptable things happening in the country. Just look at the SPLC’s documented instances of the increase of hate crimes, etc… The teens were old enough to know better. I don’t excuse them, but I don’t wish their lives to be ruined forever. If they are in fact decent people, they will ultimately benefit from what has happened.
FB requires real name or approved pseudonym. A better strategy is just not to post things on FB that you would not want your parents/grandparents to see, let alone prospective colleges and employers.
@jym626, the only part of Harvard’s decision that gives me pause is the over-enrollment problem. That shouldn’t form any part of the reason that students get the maximum punishment. We’ll never know whether these two issues are related at all. I have no inside information about why Harvard made this call. I’m uncomfortable with even the appearance or possibility that these kids got the book thrown at them in part because Harvard misjudged its yield and needs more beds in the Yard.
@Hanna Since decisions were due 5/1, and Harvard, according to the article, started questioning the students in mid-April, I will assume that the over-enrollment issue was not a factor. While Harvard at that point may have thought the yield rate would be high, I don’t think they thought it would be that high at that point in time.
@Hanna,
I am not saying, nor did I in post #33, that one had anything to do with the other. But I am relaying what “someone” ( wink wink) posted elsewhere.