Harvard Targeted in U.S. Asian-American Discrimination Probe

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>People should stop whining about this. All these schools are doing is protecting the value of their undergraduate experience by maintaining diversity. After all, wouldn’t it be incredibly boring and dissatisfying to attend a school with too many Asian-Americans. If you dislike these policies, then perhaps you should consider not applying to these schools. People who are complaining about this are both asking to enjoy the benefits of a diverse and interesting campus without being willing to be one of those who would have to sacrifice for the campus to be as such.</p>

<p>Also, in the original posting, it said that the Indian student who was the initial catalyst of these proceedings was “among the top students in his California high school class”. Well, even if he was THE top student, there are over 18,000 high schools in the country and either equal to or less than 1/10 that many slots at America’s top Universities, so that’s incredibly weak grounds for filing a law suit.</p>

<p>I’ll tell you what, though, I wish him the best of luck applying to Grad. school if he chooses to try because NO ONE’s going to want a kid who they think is going to file a lawsuit every time he feels sad. Bottom Line, Asian-Americans should stop complaining and start not being nerds.</p>

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<p>Because they’re all alike?</p>

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<p>If there is racial discrimination, it is rooted in that attitude.</p>

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<p>Harvard has never done admissions “by the numbers,” or not at least for 50 years. Somewhere on CC there’s a link to an old nyt (I think) article about the admissions process.</p>

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<p>If a lawsuit provides proof that there is no institutional bias, is that not good thing for everyone in the end?</p>

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<p>Why do some of you just assume Asian American candidates are better only in grades and test scores? From what I’ve seen, they seem to be better than the socalled URMs in winning awards or notable ECs by significant margins. </p>

<p>I am pretty sure the plaintiff isn’t naive to believe he has the case if all he got was just being valedictorian.</p>

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<p>^ see dwight’s post #8</p>

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<p>Bottom line is that diversity will always play a fundamental role in college admissions and the racial group that has the most potential for admittance will face a great deal of inequity to uphold diversity. There is NOTHING wrong with this utilitarian idea because diversity is what ultimately fosters open-mindedness within the student body (almost seems like a paradox but it isn’t…), which consequently creates societal progress. </p>

<p>With 7 billion people on this planet, everyone cannot get what they want.</p>

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<p>^^his post isn’t insightful. there’s also the slight hint of stereotyping out of him, if you read carefully.</p>

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<p>Jrftkd, not every Asian-American kid is a nerd. There are many who truly love learning /are passionate of what they love than just achieving high “stats”. I originally thought your other post in other tread was just a sarcasm, now I know where you come from.</p>

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<p>Sam, I haven’t picked up on any stereotyping but maybe I’m just not in tune. Regardless I think the point is that it isn’t possible to compare ECs without context. Since each individual has a unique set of life circumstances , one can’t really objectively compare ECs.</p>

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<p>I didn’t read about half of the page here, but I would like to put in my own perspective.</p>

<p>A couple years ago, an African-American male at my school graduated and was able to attend Harvard. He played varsity sports, was a captain for that team, was the president of several clubs, took as many AP classes that he could get his hands on and graduated as Valedictorian. In his case, I don’t think the racial aspect really mattered; he would’ve gotten into Harvard regardless of his ethnicity. </p>

<p>I myself am Asian. I’m looking to those Ivy League schools, and I’m kind of worried that those schools are discriminating against Asians, too. But in the end, I think it’s going to be the merit and the work that I put in to get myself to those schools. It’s going to take solid academic work, strong extracurricular activities, and various leadership roles to get me in there. In the end, Harvard might indeed discriminate against Asians - but in my opinion, that only makes us work harder in order to get in.</p>

<p>And ultimately, the people who DO get in are the best of the best. </p>

<p>Regarding preferences for other races, however, I do have something against that. The standard for other people should be set high, just like it is for Asians. Giving them advantages just because of who they are is pretty unfair. </p>

<p>Overall, though, I don’t think this is a major problem. Harvard and other selective colleges will certainly have to deal with this in the future, but the system right now is still alright. The standard might be different, but it’s not drastically different; people of other races, if they are to be accepted, will have to work hard, too. And oftentimes, they too would succeed after getting out of Harvard. So in that perspective, the system is adequate; it would simply be better if it worked that ethnicity problem out. </p>

<p>So yeah. That’s all I have to say. Hope y’all have a good evening.</p>

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<p>^Jrftkd is having a grand old time tonight trolling the Harvard board</p>

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<p>Them’s fightin’ words.</p>

<p>How was I stereotyping?</p>

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They will do the opposite - they will try all the impossible things to get in. I know four EA admits well this year as I helped three of them, three of the four are Asian-Americans, and they all have achieved international status in some fields. If this is what Harvard requires Asians to do, they will get it. No problems.</p>

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<p>As an Chinese immigrant, I’m quite feel that many Asians has this complex that because they are smart and qualified, top school should accept them. Many Asians are quite self-centered and think their race is smartest. Unfortunately, they don’t realize that many of them are quite similar. How many math/science Asians are out there? Many. How many Asians out there seek to become lawyers/politicians/writers? Not many. Businessman/Scientists? Many. Many Asians play tennis (Asians are the most represented in tennis). Few succeed in football, soccer, track, cross country, swimming, baseball. Go to ANY state level competition and you will realize that 90% of the athlete are not Asians (trust me, go watch Cross Country states, you will realize that 99% of the athlete on the starting line are Caucasians). Now go to any robotics/science fair/math or science competition and you will realize that a third to a half of the participants are pretty much Asian (watch the award ceremonies, it’s mostly Asians). Go to any youth orchestra and you will realize that a huge proportion of the students are Asians. Piano competitions are the same.
What does this all reveal? That many Asians do the same things. So HYPSM and other tops schools are not rejecting you based on Race alone. It’s because you don’t stand out. If they accept all qualifying Asians, Harvard would be a math/science school…oops I guess that means it would be MIT right? Now if you love math and science, that’s fine. However, you should find a way to go above all others. I know many Harvard students that are math loving tennis players. But how did they get accepted? Well, one is a Intel STS finalist, one is a Seimen’s finalist, one is a Intel ISEF 1st place winner, and one is a Davidson scholar, one made IMO, one maid ILO.
Asians, stop whining that Harvard is rejecting you based on Race. Find a way to stand out. If you can find someone very similar to you and if a stranger (like admissions official) can’t pinpoint a big difference between you two, then you don’t stand out.</p>

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<p>Wait… so I love math and science just because I’m Asian? I didn’t know that doing the things I like to do are going to hurt me in the college admissions. :confused: Am I supposed to quit robotics and Mu Alpha Theta. It’s sad as participating in such activities are fun even if I don’t win(in all my 4 years in mu alpha theta, I’ve never won a trophy until early this afternoon, obviously lol i ain’t the brightest).</p>

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<p>DwightEisenhower & coffeeannarbor,
The issue is whether many of the rejected Asian American candidates have “better” credentials than the accepted URMs, using holistic approach and taking context into consideration, not whether they stand out among other Asian American peers that are high-achieving. If you require Asian candidates to “stand out”, you need to extend that standard to the rest, including URMs (i.e., do the admitted URMs stand out among the rejected Asians, other than the ethnicity itself of course?).</p>

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<p>I’m an Asian junior applying next year, and I kind of agree with coffeeannarbor. As I see it, affirmative action is based on the idea of giving advantages to groups that have traditionally been discriminated against (African Americans and Hispanics in college admissions, in this case). In general, yes, these groups have faced more challenges than Caucasians or Asians in terms of obtaining higher education, considering the extensive admissions requirements such as SAT, ACT, extracurriculars, and the money that goes into providing those results. Someone earlier on this thread mentioned the juxtaposition of opportunity, and that’s the essential factor that so many people seem to miss. Yes, it is quite impressive for an applicant (of ANY ethnicity) to be internationally published in a reputable journal, be an Intel finalist, or anything of similar magnitude. But it is easy to overlook the conditions that led them there. Forgive me if I am generalizing, but most of the applicants I have encountered with these amazing credentials come from solid, if not privileged backgrounds, often with family on university faculty or connections that can land them a lovely job/internship. However, it is equally if not more impressive when a student from a low-income or difficult upbringing who has faced many challenges in life accomplishes something that seems quite small in relation. Ultimately, what institutions like Harvard are looking for are students who will make the most out of what Harvard has to offer, and the only way that can be judged by admissions is how an applicant has taken advantage of the opportunities they have had. In the latter case, they assume that the underprivileged students with “small” achievements would have been on the same level as the former if they had had the same opportunity. By admitting them, they are extending them the opportunities they had lacked to give them the chance to be all that they have the potential to become. I fully support taking a chance on the kid who faced struggles growing up and therefore did the best he could. However, the issue with affirmative action is the confounding of race with opportunity. It is absolutely unfair that an applicant who grew up in a cushy, “country club” lifestyle will get an advantage for being an “underrepresented” minority while, let’s say, an Asian immigrant who’s family struggles to make a living will be discriminated against even if they have taken advantage of every opportunity. The fairest affirmative action, if we are stuck with having one, is socioeconomic consideration. But then again, that only serves to compromise need-blind admissions, so I guess that there’s really not a pretty solution.</p>

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<p>Caltech is another top university that claims it does not practice affirmative action. Look at its racial composition. No affirmative action = more Asians, therefore affirmative action discriminates against Asians due to their race.</p>

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Ummm. I have to say that statement has serious flaws in it. Caltech is located in California where the Asian population is huge. Yes it’s private school but that doesn’t matter when you consider the majority of seniors in America will apply closer to home than across the country. Look at all the UCs and you will realize the proportion of Asians in their school population is significantly larger than any other school (compare it to University of Michigan and University of Texas, the two of the largest in the US). Also, there is a difference between accepted and incoming. For Caltech, it is usually that the percent of Asians accepted is less than the percent of Asians at the school. So the accepted class may have a smaller proportion of Asians than the incoming class.</p>

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No you shouldn’t quit. Like I said before, I’m not saying you can’t love math and science. It’s great you love math/science. BUT, if you want to get into Harvard, you want to make it so that you impress the admissions officials. You have to make yourself memorable when they enter committee meetings. You have to give them something to talk about. That’s why you have to stand out. Let them be able to say: Oh, this is the kid that did _________. Like oh, he was captain of the robots team that qualified for the FIRST championship. You don’t want the admissions official to be like: oh, this kid, yeah, he did robotics, took math competitions. Then another official may be like, oh so did this kid.</p>