Harvard v. Yale

<p>I'm glad you had a good visit at Yale. It sounds like it's a comfortable place for you, and I certainly don't think you'd be making a mistake to go there. But if you want to compare the two schools, you should probably spend some time at Harvard as well, and ask students there for their views on the two schools. I expect you'd get a different perspective than you got at Yale. :)</p>

<p>If you are concerned about student opinions of life at either Harvard or Yale (or anywhere else for that matter) I suggest you take a look at the Prowl'r College Guide Book. It is a compilation of student opinions about a variety of campus topicis, from academics to social atmosphere, and contains a ranking of each. It is written by students for students.</p>

<p>Those kinda books only have positive feedback in them.</p>

<p>Seriously, have you ever read one that said: "This college blows, don't come here, I'd rather die a thousand deaths than finish my degree here." Or anything negative at all?</p>

<p>You obviously have not read the Prowl'r Guide. Only 4 or 5 schools received its highest acadmic rating. So I would say it is far from fluff. It offers a tough but fair assessment of life on each campus.</p>

<p>I haven't read the Prowl'r Guide, nor do I plan do. But given who's recommending it, I assume that it has a negative view of Harvard. (Am I right, Alpha? I'd love to be wrong on this one!)</p>

<p>Guides are fine, but there's nothing like seeing for yourself. I wouldn't base my decision on a Guide any more than I'd base my decision on the posts on this board. :)</p>

<p>You are WRONG Cosar. You may not be Byerly, but you do sound like him. Very defensive, somewhat insecure.</p>

<p>I believe the Guide gives Harvard an A rating. Only 4 or 5 schools get an A+ rating. In a universe of many hundreds of schools that's not bad.</p>

<p>Happy to hear it Alpha - my apologies. But I still wouldn't base my decision on a guide.</p>

<p>Harvard, totally. Yale doesn't even compare. Unless of course you're talking political science, then it's all about Yale.</p>

<p>Accepted Cosar. The Guide is only one of many resources one should consider in evaluating a college program. The political/social views of the school's leadership should also be considered. And I do advise a visit.</p>

<p>Texasmathwhiz, that's pretty harsh on Yale! After visiting, I still think Yale is better in humanities and music, Harvard's better in sciences.</p>

<p>Thanks so much for the apology, Byerly, but I wasn't worried: I figured that most people on CC were smart enough to have realized that they couldn't trust your facts.</p>

<p>And I apologize in turn: I neglected to congratulate you on achieving the milestone of over 1,000 Fair and Balanced posts. Harvard and you must be very proud.</p>

<p>hehe 1,000 posts! Byerly must have a lot of time on his hands.</p>

<p>Okay alpha, I'm a little slow tonight. It finally dawned on me that you're promoting the Prowl'r not because it's so negative on Harvard, but because it ranks Princeton higher. I think I'm discerning a common theme in every ranking you recommend. So what's your connection to Princeton?</p>

<p>Unless you are talking to a transfer student, don't really put too much weight into one student's opinions on Harvard college. Maybe she does have a friend who is unhappy at Harvard. That doesn't mean that you won't. And the reverse is true as well - don't put too much weight into harvard opinions on yale. They don't go to the other college so they really don't know what its like there, save a 20 minute tour, myth, or a guide to college written by a miniscule sample of students there. You are doing the right thing by going to visit each school for a few days. </p>

<p>And Harvard's humanities are rock solid, you couldn't in any feasible way go wrong there. And Yale's sciences are likewise strong and getting stronger - they just invested one billion dollars into the medical school and science hill.</p>

<p>Cosar, You are starting to sound like Byerly. Are you one of his AKAs. He has been known to use an alias now and then. I recommended Prowl'r because the OP sought student opinions. Can you think of a better Guide for such views?
Yes, the Guide does rank Princeton above Harvard, but can you think of a national, commonly read, UNDERGRADUATE ranking publication that places Harvard ahead of Princeton? I can't. This is not a slight on Harvard, which is a great school. It's just reality today.</p>

<p>Being relatively new here and not having ventured much beyond the Harvard board, I hadn’t realized until I looked at some of your other posts last night that you were essentially the Princeton version of Byerly – a relentless promoter of your school. And I honestly don’t mean that to be critical. I acknowledged my biases in my first post here. I just like to understand the biases of others.</p>

<p>I also think rankings are silly (even if they can be fun for purposes of school rivalries), and I cringe at the thought of someone choosing among schools like Harvard, Yale and Princeton on the basis of whether one is listed ahead of the other in some ranking. The site linked below, while it’s a few years old now, does a pretty good job of critiquing standard rankings and offers its own undergraduate ranking. It takes a “peer group” approach, with the top peer group consisting of (in alphabetical order) Caltech, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, U. of Chicago and Yale.</p>

<p>While I think the peer group approach is better than a straight ranking, it’s still fundamentally flawed as the basis for choosing a school. Different schools are right for different people. Which is why I advocate going to see for yourself.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/Undergra2001.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.utexas.edu/law/faculty/bleiter/Undergra2001.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Byerly, I mean Cosar. There is a significant difference between my postings and Byerlys'. The difference can be explained by a posting I read yesterday on another thread:</p>

<p>"keep in mind that when I (and other Dartmouth forum people) get mad at Byerly, it's for much the same reasons...because he makes posts that appear innocuous and innocently informative on the fair but are in fact thinly veiled pitches for Harvard"</p>

<p>The writer was actually being polite. Byerly has provided misinformation numerous times and lied outright. The threads are filled with such examples.
You claimed that I was "essentially the Princeton version of Byerly". If so, please prove it. Go through my history and find the misinformation and lies.
Otherwise, try to measure your words more carefully.</p>

<p>As for your Texas poll, it is now you who are acting like Byerly, desparately searching for a minor study here or there that puts your beloved H in a prime position. How pathetic! Thats precisely why I challenged you to find "a national, commonly read, UNDERGRADUATE ranking publication".</p>

<p>The peer group criteria in your 2000 Texas poll already exists in the 2005 US News & World Report ranking and is given significant weighting. In addition to that criteria there is also so much more. The US News rating is far more comprehensive.</p>

<p>With Princeton one does not have to lie or distort information. What I appeciate about Princeton is, for the most part, similar to what all the college ranking researchers have found. It is the best at what it does and it does not try to be all things to all people. In a nutshell Princeton provides UNDERGRADUATES with the best of all worlds - a total undergraduate focus with world class university resources. Both students and educators can learn from the model. I am genuinely impressed by it and hope to make others aware of it. Hopefully, this knowledge can help others when evaluating their own prospects.</p>

<p>P.S. If your not Byerly, then you're learning quickly from him - "when you don't like the message, attack the messenger".</p>

<p>And you’re accusing me of attacking the messenger?? :)</p>

<p>Whether intentionally or not, you completely missed the point of my last post. You’ve also completely missed the point of the post you quoted (the poster was making the same observation I made about your being the Princeton version of Byerly). But this has gotten boring, so I won’t be responding further.</p>

<p>the OP was directed at harvard and yale, not princeton. Princeton might be one of the best "ranked" undergraduate universities in the country. That's not the point.</p>

<p>Cosar/Byerly. Lumping someone in with Byerly is infact "attacking the messenger". If you're going to do it, at least back it up. I do not distort, misinform and even lie to promote a school or cause. You have examined my record, have you found such? If not, then have the decency to admit it or, at the very least, choose your words and comparisons more carefully.</p>

<p>I do not admit to a Princeton affiliation. I do however admit to a fascination with the Princeton model. I think both you and Byerly would benefit from studying it.</p>

<p>P.S. Disclousure: note on the topic of my bias.<br>
I have had exposure to all of the Ivies but, for many reasons, my knowledge of H is greatest. I am however, each day, becoming more convinced of two things: 1. Among the Ivies the Princeton UNDERGRADUATE model is BY FAR superior; 2. Among the Ivies Harvard has the most focused graduate program.</p>