<p>^ USNews undergraduate rankings in business and engineering have Berkeley at No. 3 and No. 2, respectively... deal with it.</p>
<p>Don't let this board represent the attitude of Harvard students.. I don't think most/any of these posters actually attend. Most of us realize that Harvard is not tops in every field, anyway. There's also the issue of regional bias. On the east coast people usually have wayyyy lower interest in Cal or UCLA than on the west (I'm from the east.) I had no idea Cal and UCLA were prestigious until I came on CC. But if you live in California it's a different story. Anyway, what's the point of this thread? For someone to brag about getting into Harvard?</p>
<p>USNEWS UNDERGRADUATE RANKINGS</p>
<p>Overall:</p>
<p>Berkeley: 21st</p>
<p>that's all folks :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Don't let this board represent the attitude of Harvard students
[/quote]
</p>
<p>i'm not a harvard student... all i'm saying is that you can't say berkeley is overall as good as harvard... ESPECIALLY at the undergraduate level... not in everything, but overall....</p>
<p>and that whole thing about east vs. west is very true... i live on the east coast and many people have no clue what berkeley is...</p>
<p>There's something to be said for attending school at the worlds second largest non-profit organization (behind only the Bill and Melina Gates Foundation).</p>
<p>There's also a certain something to be said for being able to say, "I went to Harvard," and ANYONE ANYWHERE will know the exact school you're talking about.</p>
<p>Let me just say they're both fine schools in academics, and probably little difference exists. So you must turn to what's different between the two. I've just given fine examples of two.</p>
<p>
[quote]
all i'm saying is that you can't say berkeley is overall as good as harvard... ESPECIALLY at the undergraduate level
[/quote]
I don't think anyone on this thread said Berkeley undergrad overall is better than Harvard.</p>
<p>
[quote]
in undergraduate ranking, berkeley doesn't come close to duke, jhu, and especially not harvard... deal with it
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Berkelely's only ranked a few spots behind JHU. Considering that there are some 4,200 colleges, you're talking about the difference between being better than 99.8% of colleges and being better than 99.5% of colleges. It's petty to see such incremental differences.</p>
<p>Or, if you like parallelism, in quality of programs and faculty, Duke and JHU don't even come close to Berkeley... deal with it. :]</p>
<p>
[quote]
all i'm saying is that you can't say berkeley is overall as good as harvard
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Who said it was? I don't think even the Berkeley cheerleaders would try to make such a bold claim.</p>
<p>Oh, and:</p>
<p>harvard</a> sucks for an undergraduate education - Google Search</p>
<p>First result. And third.</p>
<p>no one has said those thing? open your eyes and read the posts</p>
<p>By the first result do you mean the crimson one? Have you read that one? </p>
<p>"100 HARVARD STUDENTS COMPLAIN TOO MUCH"</p>
<p>It was sarcastic.</p>
<p>
[quote]
no one has said those thing? open your eyes and read the posts
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What thing?</p>
<p>
[quote]
By the first result do you mean the crimson one? Have you read that one?</p>
<p>"100 HARVARD STUDENTS COMPLAIN TOO MUCH"</p>
<p>It was sarcastic.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm aware, but I assumed you could see the element of truth in some of the items on the list.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but one BS USNews ranking (which I can tell it really is just by looking at the neuroscience rankings) is not enough justification to say that Berkeley grad is better than Harvard. Berkeley's star is fading, in many areas it has been eclipsed by UCLA (overall Cal >>>>>>>>>>>>UCLA). And don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for Cal but it's foolish to deny certain realities and I'm not saying that other public research oriented universities don't have their share of problems.</p>
<p>Cal students from California are (for the most part) in the top 10% of their class, which isn't exactly Harvard, but it's not at all as bad as some of you make it. My suggestion though to anyone who has studied or worked in Berkeley is to check other "top" dept.'s facilities because it is not at all well funded for a university of its size (UMich has a much higher endowment and spends nearly twice as much annually on research, 15,000 vs. 10,000 postgrads). But one thing is for sure, at the grad level Berkeley attracts some of the best students in the country and I really like the fact that they look for people who are into their fields and doing research more than anything (this is the impression I got while working there during the summer) it gives a person like me (who doesn't have the greatest marks in the world) hope that all his "passion" and research experience might actually amount to something.</p>
<p>
Who determines what school deserves to be top 10 in the world? Berkeley isn't even top 20 in the United States, let alone the world. Its undergraduate program is far weaker than those of Notre Dame, JHU or Duke.</p>
<p>
Two can play that game buddy. Duke kills Berkeley in every conceivable measure of undergraduate quality: student body strength, advising, faculty resources, job placement, med school acceptance rate, law school acceptance rate, financial resources per student, grants/stipends for study abroad/civic engagement, alumni satisfaction, student preference, etc.</p>
<p>Duke is a top 10 undergraduate institution, arguably top 5. JHU is a solid top 15 school. Berkeley is top 25 at best. It doesn't have nearly the cachet that people on this site think it does.</p>
<p>"I'm sorry but one BS USNews ranking (which I can tell it really is just by looking at the neuroscience rankings) is not enough justification to say that Berkeley grad is better than Harvard."</p>
<p>What's wrong with the neuroscience ranking? You're school not at the top?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Two can play that game buddy. Duke kills Berkeley in every conceivable measure of undergraduate quality: student body strength, advising, faculty resources, job placement, med school acceptance rate, law school acceptance rate, financial resources per student, grants/stipends for study abroad/civic engagement, alumni satisfaction, student preference, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do we have another evil asian dictator on our hands?</p>
<p>
[quote]
med school acceptance rate, law school acceptance rate,
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Maybe if they actually released those numbers rather than releasing some bullcrap inflated numbers, we could actually legitimately compare the two schools in this category.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>oh by the way- Berkeley does not superscore its SATs while most other schools do so I think you have to be very careful in comparing its scores with those of other schools. Its SAT scores come from one sitting while those of other schools come from the best you did on each section after taking the SATs in multiple sittings.</p>
<p>
[quote]
in many areas it has been eclipsed by UCLA
[/quote]
Oh really? In what fields? IMO, UCLA's reputation has declined. It used to be stellar for engineering and other fields...now, not so much.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke kills Berkeley in every conceivable measure of undergraduate quality: student body strength, advising, faculty resources, job placement, med school acceptance rate, law school acceptance rate, financial resources per student, grants/stipends for study abroad/civic engagement, alumni satisfaction, student preference, etc.
[/quote]
You mean Duke student body on average has higher SAT scores, smaller class sizes, and larger endowment per undergraduate student. Advising, grants/stipends for study abroad/civic engagement and alumni satisfaction...I need to see more proof.</p>
<p>I wouldn't choose Duke because it doesn't have a chemical engineering program. So much for being a "top 10 undergraduate" institution...</p>
<p>^See, that's a valid reason for going to a place like Cal over a top 10 school. If it doesn't have the major you're interested in...</p>
<p>Alumni satisfaction can be seen by extremely high alumni giving rate that Duke has yearly. This year it is #2 I believe behind Princeton.</p>
<p>Also, Duke has launched the most ambitious service-learning program of any college in the country recently: DukeEngage</a> | Home</p>
<p>
[quote]
Alumni satisfaction can be seen by extremely high alumni giving rate that Duke has yearly. This year it is #2 I believe behind Princeton.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nope Dartmouth is.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley's star is fading, in many areas it has been eclipsed by UCLA (overall Cal >>>>>>>>>>>>UCLA)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I daresay Berkeley has maintained its dominance in its quality of programs. It goes out of its way to maintain them—whether in top faculty, top facilities, broad library holdings, etc. In the last NRC ranking, UCLA beat Cal in only a small handful of disciplines, and in those Cal was also ranked in the top 10 (so not much difference). And in all the rest? Cal “eclipsed” UCLA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley is to check other "top" dept.'s facilities because it is not at all well funded for a university of its size
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Do you want to substantiate that claim? Berkeley spends over $500 million on non-medical research; if you count UCSF’s spending on research (to make comparisons more equal), it spends more on research than any other university, including JHU. And that’s not even counting the research funding at the labs that Berkeley manages.</p>
<p>Believe me: Berkeley’s facilities are constantly being added to and upgraded. They’re probably on par with other top department’s facilities, more likely than not. (In some cases, better—Berkeley’s phonology lab leaves most top ones in the dust, etc.) These facilities, by the way, are often, if not usually, available to undergrads.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UMich has a much higher endowment and spends nearly twice as much annually on research, 15,000 vs. 10,000 postgrads
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Really? Where’d you get that figure?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley isn't even top 20 in the United States, let alone the world.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You criticize the “precious” US News rankings, yet you say this? Hmm, I smell some hypocrisy…</p>
<p>
[quote]
Its undergraduate program is far weaker than those of Notre Dame, JHU or Duke.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you want to use US News rankings, then let’s look at Notre Dame’s place for undergrad “quality”: it’s at #19 most recently, two spots behind Berkeley at #21. And weren’t you criticizing me and others for “stratifying” among the top 10, yet here you are doing that for a difference in two spots? That smell is getting stronger…</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke kills Berkeley in every conceivable measure of undergraduate quality: student body strength, advising, faculty resources, job placement, med school acceptance rate, law school acceptance rate, financial resources per student, grants/stipends for study abroad/civic engagement, alumni satisfaction, student preference, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What UCBChemEGrad said…</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke is a top 10 undergraduate institution, arguably top 5.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Lather, rinse, and repeat. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Do we have another evil asian dictator on our hands?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think so. Which leads me to believe that this thread too should be ended, as it will go nowhere with a brick wall in the way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, Duke has launched the most ambitious service-learning program of any college in the country recently
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How is that the “most ambitious”? How is it any better than the programs at Stanford or other schools? And what does this have to do with anything? (EAD indeed…)</p>
<p><a href="EAD%20indeed…">quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Haha so true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke is a top 10 undergraduate institution, arguably top 5. JHU is a solid top 15 school. Berkeley is top 25 at best. It doesn't have nearly the cachet that people on this site think it does.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke kills Berkeley in every conceivable measure of undergraduate quality: student body strength, advising, faculty resources, job placement, med school acceptance rate, law school acceptance rate, financial resources per student, grants/stipends for study abroad/civic engagement, alumni satisfaction, student preference, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here is the Duke syndrome again. Yet another Duke alum that needs to try to bolster the rep of his school by claiming it's better than it actually is and proceeding to belittle other schools to feel better about himself and his school. </p>
<p>Guys, if Duke is so great then why do you need to convince us? I don't see MIT alums parading around this forum stating "MIT is arguably a top five institution, whereas Caltech is a solid top 10 school, and Berkeley isn't even close. MIT is better than your school" or "MIT kills Berkeley in every conceivable measure of undergraduate quality."</p>
<p>Why? Because it is obviously understood that MIT is great. Duke on the other hand... I always see Duke alums playing up their school and putting down others. If you guys are secure about your school's status as an elite institution, and really think Duke is as great as you all make it out to be, putting down other schools is not necessary.</p>