Harvey Mudd vs. Carleton vs. Williams - HELP!

College Search & Selection
1

<p>So, Harvey Mudd is a great science school in the Claremont consortium. Carleton is the best college in Minnesota (about an hour from home). Williams is a fantastic school in Massachusetts. Honestly, at this point I don't know what to do. I'm fairly sure that I want to major in physics, and if not that I can't really see myself in anything other than the sciences.</p>

<p>Some important things to me include study abroad, being able to continue playing music and doing art, and getting involved in community work.</p>

<p>There are only about 4 days left! Agh.</p>

2

<p>Good choices. Harvey Mudd has the benefit of the consortium, Carleton has the trimester system which makes it possible to do two study abroad programs, and Williams has the tutorial classes along with great art museums nearby. Each one will give you what you're looking for. Have you visited them?</p>

3

<p>Williams strikes me as the obvious choice. Basically incomparable academics; things to to note specifically for your purposes: strong study abroad programs, great music opportunities, new studio art building (in the last few years), and the relatively depressed town of North Adams nearby to do outreach in (tutoring and such).</p>

4

<p>Not knowing anything more about the OP, I personally don't see an obvious choice. All three are fantastic schools and none of them are total misses on any of the OP's criteria. </p>

<p>A few thoughts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Williams and Carleton are both fairly rural, but Claremont is an urban-y feeling suburb. All three campuses are quite residential, but do you have a big location preference?</p></li>
<li><p>Weather. Not everyone prefers SoCal sunshine, so my point isn't that any one is objectively better, but you are down to some extremes! You're obviously used to MN winters, so are you someone who handles them just fine, or does a change in climate really appeal to you?</p></li>
<li><p>Ease of travel. Carleton should be easy for you to get to. Claremont is an easy trip, but a relatively lengthy/pricey one. I've never visited Williams, but I'm told that it's tedious to reach. This was never a factor for me, but a lot of people on CC weigh it heavily. Just a thought. Tied into this is distance from home. Are you comfortable heading towards one of the coasts, or would you prefer to stay near home?</p></li>
<li><p>Social atmospheres. From what I understand, all lively, but very different. </p></li>
<li><p>I do know multiple Mudd students who've studied abroad, but it's not very common. I don't know whether that's due to lack of interest or lack of ease, but that might be something to look into (then again, if you know this early on that you want to study abroad, you should really be able to make it work). I've heard from the director of off-campus study that they're really trying to pump the program. </p></li>
<li><p>Mudd has a tech-y atmosphere that Carleton and Williams lack. Yes, you can easily meet students from the other colleges, and there are also plenty of "normal" Mudders, but the tech school atmosphere definitely does prevail. That might be a selling point or a turn off, but regardless, it's a big difference. I don't know much about Williams, but based on what I've heard, the schools probably attract very, very different (although incredibly intelligent in both cases) students, and I imagine that Carleton falls somewhere in the middle. Maybe that's a false impression, but to echo a previous poster, have you visited? What do you want in your peers? What's your ideal social scene? What's your idea of a fun dinner table conversation?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>The good news here is that you have no truly bad options. None of the schools should prevent you from pursuing your stated interests, and clearly, there are reasons that you're very drawn to all three. I think that at this point, you can start putting a greater emphasis on "soft" factors, because those are where the biggest differences seem to lie. Just my opinion.</p>

<p>Final decision time is stressful, but you're in a good position. Best of luck :)</p>

5

<p>Thanks for your opinions, guys. To answer you, yes I have visited all three. </p>

<p>Harvey Mudd students seemed very happy, even with the hard work they've had to do. The only thing that worries me about Mudd is that the campus is essentially a long rectangle, with academic buildings on one end and dorms on the other. But I suppose I could go to any of the other colleges for a change of scenery, and I don't think I'd miss winter too much.</p>

<p>Williams was a gorgeous campus, but some of the students seemed a bit uptight to me. I'm also not too interested in law/business which is where Williams sends many of its students. However, I really like their dorm system, tutorial programs, and J-term. I've heard that study abroad with a physics major is hard to do, though.</p>

<p>Carleton is, to me, quintessentially Minnesotan - full of nice, intelligent people in a rural setting. I'm just not sure if I need any more Minnesotan in me. They do have great physics and geology programs (Mudd doesn't have geology, oddly enough). But it's also the school both my parents attended, and I'm feeling a bit of pressure. I don't want to go there just because my parents did, you know?</p>

<p>At the moment I'm definitely leaning toward Mudd, but I'll e-mail a few more profs at Williams and then decide.</p>

6

<p>Etherify, I've not visited Carleton or Mudd so I can't compare, but Williams seems to have everything you want and then some! I'm not sure why you think study abroad would be difficult as a physics major. I'm certain that it's fairly common, even with double or triple majors, which are also quite normal at Williams. Why don't you post the question on the Williams board?</p>

<p>The music department at Williams is quite strong and there are plenty of performance opportunities for non-majors. Same goes for art -- wonderful art studio and one of the top art history departments in the country, three worldclass museums on or near campus.</p>

<p>Sciences are obviously excellent. Geology is also a high point -- no shortage of rocks.</p>

<p>There are certainly a fair number of kids who are "pre-professional" at Williams but there are also a fair number who are not. The influence of the arts culture and the outdoorsy nature culture are enormous. Plenty of interest in community service as well. These are energetic, multifaceted kids -- like you :)</p>

7

<p>If you are really sure you are a physics major, I can't see how you can turn down Mudd (unless the finances don't work. There's also a lot more "there, there" for community service.) If not, either of the other two should work just fine.</p>

8

<p>Mudd is a fabulous school. Mt. Baldy is (literally) 25 minutes away for skiing, and the beach is 45 minutes in the other direction. You can get gorgeous architecture at Scripps and Pomona. It's an LAC with a techy feel.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
The only thing that worries me about Mudd is that the campus is essentially a long rectangle, with academic buildings on one end and dorms on the other. But I suppose I could go to any of the other colleges for a change of scenery, and I don't think I'd miss winter too much.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You can see snow up on the mountains across the street. =)</p>

<p>Also, if you like arts... My brother is about to graduate from Mudd in engineering with a minor in vocal performance. His suitemate is about to get her BS from Mudd in dance performance (long story... but possible to do). Your existence will by no means be devoid of arts.</p>

<p>Plus, yeah, you don't spend <em>all</em> your time on the Mudd campus, particularly if you'd prefer to get a healthy diet of arts. Scripps is right across the street (BEAUTIFUL campus) and the rest of the five Cs are open to Mudders as well. You're not confined to your own campus by any means. Because of his involvement in choirs and music, my brother actually spends a ton of his time over at Scripps (and is typically the only male in their coffee house, which he <em>definitely</em> doesn't mind...!).</p>

<p>Physics has a great department with a lot of really excellent profs. One of my best friends from high school has a physics degree from Mudd and loved her time there, and the research that she got to do.</p>

<p>You can be really involved in your sciences and really involved in other stuff, too. If you liked Mudd, and you can afford it, I'd go for it!</p>

10

<p>So I guess one question I still have is whether it is more beneficial to be with all science students or be mixed in with students who are majoring in everything under the sun.</p>

<p>(Arguably, at Mudd one will have friends at the other campuses with other interests. But it would take more effort to do that then rooming with...say a music major freshman year at a LAC like Carleton.)</p>

11

<p>Well, everyone's got to have a concentration in at least one humanities subject in order to graduate. A lot of those folks are artists. My brother ended up with a pretty well-rounded group of people. In his suite, there's a photographer, the aforementioned dancer, a guy who vacates the premises every weekend to go outdoorsing (incidentally, he's from Minnesota, and loves Mudd), and my brother the singer. I spent a year working out in LA and spent several evenings hanging out with my brother and his friends, and I never felt stifled by their all being science students. Their interests were diverse enough that it didn't really come across at all.</p>

<p>Oh, also, my friend from high school spent a semester in Heidelberg, Germany, studying physics. So, studying abroad is definitely possible.</p>

<p>...And as an engineer whose roommate was a music major, I've got to say that it was a little bit of a headache sometimes. For example, when we took a linguistics course together, it was my easiest course, but it was her hardest course. She was always in the practice rooms, and her violin performance major was by no means easy, but despite our being really amazingly good friends, there were times when I thought I was going to kill her because my coursework was really difficult and her coursework was... not as difficult as mine. While I'm really grateful to have her as a lifelong friend, I might have had a better time of things if I'd roomed with someone who really understood what problem sets entail. It's not just homework that you have to get done... It's a learning process. (IE, don't talk to me when I'm at my desk!!!)</p>

<p>Bottom line... I don't think you'll feel one-sided once you find your groove at Mudd, if you decide to go there.</p>

12

<p>Ether, I see two choices here: One do you want a small liberal arts college or do you want a college with a technical bent? The second choice is do you want to stay close to home or do you want to try another part of the country? I don't see that you could go wrong with any of your choices but if you could answer the above questions you should be able to settle what is most important to you. </p>

<p>Good luck and let us know what you decide.</p>

13

<p>I would go to either Williams or Mudd, but Williams seems like the choice.</p>

14

<p>We have watched Teaching Company videos by a Harvey Mudd math teacher named Arthur Benjamin. He was fabulous- very enthusiastic and knowledgeable. I would love to take a class from him!</p>

15

<p>The American Physics Society sponsors the Apker</a> Award for undergraduate research in physics. Only two or three Apker Awards are issued annually. </p>

<p>Over the past decade, Williams and Harvey Mudd have probably won more Apkers than any other school in the country (Williams won in 1999, 2002, and 2004; HMC in 1998, 2003, and 2006). These results are particularly impressive given the small number of physics majors at these schools.</p>

16

<p>Go to Harvey Mudd, you'll never regret it</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
We have watched Teaching Company videos by a Harvey Mudd math teacher named Arthur Benjamin. He was fabulous- very enthusiastic and knowledgeable. I would love to take a class from him!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Professor Benjamin is also a member of the Magic Castle in Los Angeles and regularly performs his Math Magic show there... I saw his show once, as a guest of his, and it was mind-boggling. The guy can cube five-digit numbers in his head. He hands out calculators to everyone in the front row to check him.</p>

<p>He's also banned from Vegas. =)</p>

18

<p>Dude, you SOOO cannot lose either way. </p>

<p>Williams is as good in physics, and has a more recognized name.</p>

<p>At Mudd, you can take lots of classes at Pomona and Claremont McKenna. The Claremont Consortium is almost 3x as large as Williams, so if you want really small, go Williams. The course variety will be much, much broader than at Williams.</p>

<p>At Mudd, you've got Cal Tech at a 20 minute car drive away... the only place in the country with the average student as smart as Mudders. I don't know if you have any friends going there, but if you do ....</p>

19

<p>Prof Benjamin:
YouTube</a> - Professor Benjamin Mathemagics 4/13/08</p>

20

<p>Selken that was great! He must always speak with his hands LOL (he does that non stop on the TTC videos). Have you had a class with him?</p>