Has anyone been in multiple youth orchestras or ensembles while in High School?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>DD, finishing freshman year in HS, has the good fortune starting in the fall to be a member of two Youth Orchestras and one Youth Wind Symphony. Though the rehearsals and schedules do not conflict we are concerned that it could be too much on her plate along with private lessons, the HS band, academics etc. We are also considering starting piano lessons in the fall as well, since we've received many suggestions stating that this will make the path & transition to majoring in performance better.</p>

<p>Has anyone been in this situation? If so what pros and cons were /are being experienced?</p>

<p>As always thanks for your opinions.
JD</p>

2

<p>My dd has been in honors orchestra, a wind ensemble and an honors choir at the same time. Now going into her junior year, she has to cut back since oboe and vocal performance are not her music goals! So she is cutting orchestra and wind ensemble so she can concentrate on piano and organ.</p>

<p>I think with musically active kids, you have to play it be ear and do what is right year by year.</p>

3

<p>My DS was in 2/3 (two years), a wind symphony that met Saturday mornings for 4 hours, and on Monday night in the winds group and symphony orchestra of another that met monday evenings from 5:15 to 9:30 (both groups rehearsed during this time). He handled that plus all the school groups (honors and extras) without much hassle.</p>

<p>Last year my DD was in (4) a Wind Ensemble Saturday mornings for 4 hours, Symphony Orchestra Thursday Evening (7-9:30), and that same Monday night group winds and symphony from 5:15 - 9:30. All the school groups as well. Absolutely brutal, I actually offerred to let her drop something (not allowed ususally in our house, you commit you stay with it) but she stuck it out. Next year we are cutting back for sure expecially with auditions to deal with. I spent the year worried and proud of her, a weird way to spend a year as a parent.</p>

<p>The above also happened in addition to regualr honors and AP regimens academically.</p>

<p>My DS who just finished his Freshman year in college told us that the students who didn’t do all this stuff seem to find it harder to contend with a college music load. All the kids he knows from these groups pretty much feel the same way.</p>

4

<p>My D, a high school junior, did 3 groups this year. A wind ensemble, and 2 orchestras. Each rehearsed for 3+ hours. 2 of the groups required a 3 hour round trip car ride each. Somehow she managed it (did much homework in the car). She maintained a 3.7, with 2 AP classes. All that being said, she did decide to drop one orchestra for next year. She said that it would be too much with the added stress of college aps and auditions. </p>

<p>The one thing I would caution is to check all the schedules very carefully, especially the “extra” rehearsals like dress rehearsals, sectionals and the concerts. We had a couple of unfortunate conflicts due to last minute rehearsal changes/oversights which left both conductors a bit angry with her.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

5

<p>D did two orchestras and a couple of chamber groups at a combination of two music schools and her high school over the years. As flute 1298 said, it’s not the regular scheduling that causes the stress, it’s the extra rehearsals or the moving of the normal Sunday rehearsal to a Saturday due to conflicts at the venue, or (in our case) back-to-back rehearsals in different cities. Still, in the end, each group provided its own benefits and D wouldn’t have dropped any of them.</p>

<p>Me, I’m just happy she’ll be responsible for getting herself to all of her own activities at college!</p>

6

<p>DS did a precollege wind ensemble and orchestra…and a chamber music group…he left here at noon on Sunday and arrived back home about 10. Wind ensemble was from 1-4, chamber group from 4-5, dinner, and orchestra from 6-9. He did this for three years. Thank heaven’s it was all in one place.</p>

7

<p>In all 4 years of HS our D was in Community Youth Orchestra, HS wind ensemble, Theater pit Orchestra, HS Jazz Band, HS Orchestra, Community Jazz Band, Community Wind Ensemble and Community Big Band. We don’t know how she did it but in the 4 years she had a major conflict only once. All of the bands and orchestra keep in touch with each other and work around each others schedule. It was nothing to put 2 to 3 hundred miles on the car per week just driving her around. She is now going into sophomore year with a double major in Ed and Performance and has nothing but good memories.</p>

8

<p>Yes. Child (cello) has always been in school orchestra and in the regional youth symphony. Has also been (in addition to these) in a pre-college program’s orchestra for three semesters and after that in the “big city” youth symphony.</p>

<p>In addition, did the obligatory all-state three years (F, So, J) and the school musical for all four.</p>

<p>Dropped the “big city” gig during auditions.</p>

<p>That said, it’s different for a wind player. I would surmise that repertoire would be a significant question as well as stamina. (I can’t imagine a brass player doing this.) Juggling rehearsals shouldn’t be an issue if the conductors like her but you need to make sure performances won’t be on the same days (though orchestras near each other tend to coordinate schedules.) As noted above, there will be last minute additional rehearsals; there always are.</p>

<p>One last tip: find out the policies on excused absences.</p>

<p>One thing though, if you do three or more ensembles, that’s probably about it for EC’s.</p>

9

<p>It’s managable to be in everything. Four bands, three choirs, a youth orchestra, piano, voice and percussion lessons. In addition,12 honors choirs/bands and summer camps. It didn’t affect my gpa (4.0), but it required me getting up at 4 almost every morning. It’s all based off of how bad you want something for yourself, I suppose. (also from Ohio)</p>

10

<p>Ensembles are addicting. But they also need time to practice their instruments, and academics start heating up sophomore year. If your student is very focused, good at time management and can handle stress maturely it can be do-able.</p>

11

<p>It is doable, as others have posted. My take is slightly different, to me it isn’t the question about whether it is possible to do it, but rather, is it all worth it? What I mean is, are all those ensembles worth the student’s time? Are they getting something out of it, or is it just doing it to do it? Also, what is the students ultimate goal? If they are just simply someone who loves to play music, but isn’t thinking of going into it but rather are academically focused, the concern (to me) would be the time taken by the ensembles might tire the kid out and not allow them to focus on the academics. If they can pull it off, great, if it is something that drives them and so forth, then that to me would be okay.</p>

<p>If they are serious about music, are or are seriously thinking about going into it, I would be worried about a couple of things. If the student is in high level youth symphony or pre college programs, there often can be conflicts with other performing groups, and in the high level programs IME they are not all that forgiving when other things come up (even with each other, I might add). In my experience, quantity doesn’t equal quality, and if the student is not getting something out of it, why do it? Why face the extra time and effort if the groups involved aren’t at a level where they are learning anything, or getting anything out of it? That obviously is in the mind of the beholder, about ‘getting something out of it’ and such, but it is a valid question IMO. With the time that prep programs require (orchestra/theory/ear training work) and high level youth symphonies that require students to practice, given the level of playing, plus several hours of practice on the instrument itself, the time given to other activities, if it doesn’t really do anything for the student, may be time better spent (again, that is up to the student and the situation). </p>

<p>From experience and talking to other music parents, it is common for kids who are strong musically to get involved in a lot of groups, especially school music groups, because the music directors tend to glom onto talented musical students to try and boost the level of their program and it can mean a lot of time and yes, conflict, like when a rehearsal for the school pit band happens the night of a mandatory concert of another group at a high level program…it may be better to limit activity to the programs that give the kid the best ‘bang for the buck’, even if it creates some tension with people like school music directors, in the end it probably saves a lot more grief IMO.</p>

12

<p>I think it is way too much. You know when the rehearsals are; you don’t know when the lab reports and school projects are due. Also, she will need time to work on her solo rep.</p>

<p>Now having said that, I would make sure she takes theory along with her piano. :)</p>

13

<p>For DD, honors choir, honors orchestra and the wind ensemble all had a no-absence policy. Add piano and organ competitions, recitals on all three instruments plus music at church, practice time, and DD felt she wasn’t giving her best to every group. Going into her junior year, she also knows to be competitive in organ and especially piano, she has to bump up her practice time, and extra orchestra and wind ensemble rehearsals were just getting in the way. </p>

<p>Again, I think it depends on the kid, and especially on future goals. To make up for wind ensemble, which dd will miss, her piano teacher has organized a number of chamber opportunities for dd, which in the long run will help her more for college admissions as a piano/organ major than any wind group.</p>

14

<p>I’m with musicprnt on this one: I don’t think the issue should be, “Can they do it?” Rather the issue should be, “Is it good for them?” While high school musicians benefit from a variety of ensemble experiences, there is a point of diminishing returns. Beyond two or three good ensembles, the benefits are minimal. Most better music schools aren’t counting the number of ensembles; the audition is paramount, and if they look at ensembles, they will care more about the quality of them than the quantity.</p>

<p>For students that want to apply to major conservatories on competitive instruments like piano, cello, and violin, most students need to be putting in three to six hours of practice almost every day; being in too many ensembles makes that difficult, not only in terms of the hours available, but also in terms of the physical stamina of hands, arms etc. (most kids probably just shouldn’t put in 6 hours of individual practice after 4 hours of ensemble practice). Even with wind instruments which typically practice a fraction of the time of piano and strings, too many ensembles will interfere with the ability to practice one’s individual repertoire. </p>

<p>Vocalists, in particular, need to guard against instrument fatigue and bodily fatigue. Oversinging and singing when tired when in high school all too often damages voices.</p>

<p>Having said all that, for a student that just loves playing in ensembles, is not prone to stress, and does not need to fit in long hours of individual practice, I say go for as many as you can handle, provided that there will be no/minimal conflicts. I really think that overextending oneself by being in too many groups can show disrespect to each of the groups one is in. Ultimately though music should bring joy to one’s life, so if being in 10 ensembles makes a kid happy, then so much the better.</p>

15

<p>I agree with violindad. Are the extra ensembles in the student’s best interest? Our son did not play in ensembles outside of the public high school program–marching band, concert band, wind ensemble, choir, men’s ensemble and jazz ensemble were more than enough for him to manage. He spent his limited free time doing homework, activities with the youth group, and community service. This resulted in a resume full of diverse experiences which caught the attention of admissions offices. They saw a talented student with a very well-rounded background. In his case, it did not negatively impact his admission to his first choice school.</p>

16

<p>With wind instruments, looking ahead to competitive auditions, I would be sure to concentrate on thoughtfully working on quality solo repertoire. Being involved with too many youth orchestras could mean sitting a lot around in practices and concerts - it’s not like a violin where you’re playing all the time! Also, youth orchestras tend to do a lot of the same rep anyway - why duplicate.</p>

17

<p>I will also chime in on the side of the “should she”? I remember speaking with you before, and I know that your D is very talented and has been a member of some great ensembles, and that will serve her well. But, at this point in time, I would be concerned with repetitive stress injuries, which seem to show themselves at the least opportune times, such as during senior year audition season or freshman year when the best players get assigned to the most ensembles- I know you don’t want that to happen! PM me and we can talk some more…</p>

18

<p>Yes … and we’ll never do it again.</p>

19

<p>Thank you all for all the responses to this question, especially Mezzo’s Mama that took time this weekend to talk some sense into me! In the end we’ve decided that two is enough and that no matter what, the spot DD was given in the Cleveland Orchestra Youth Orchestra receives the highest priority. Now it’s off to return the piccolo that was rented for the auditions and pick one that will be appropriate for the orchestra.
Again - thank you all.
JD</p>

20

<p>I second musicprnt and violindad; DS was in a youth orchestra, two college prep type chamber ensembles, and to earn money, was a paid assistant concertmaster in three different regional orchestras. (He also played organ in church on Sunday mornings). He was homeschooled, and he dropped the youth orch senior year in favor of the second prep program, but even so, this was an outrageously demanding schedule, especially since he drove an hour each way to most of the rehearsals plus to his private lessons. In retrospect, I think time might well have been better spent in the practice room. </p>

<p>By my count, if HS band is included, your daughter is in 4 ensembles. Although the schedules don’t appear to conflict, there can be last minute changes in scheduling (a real headache if you are already over-scheduled), extra rehearsals called, etc. If your daughter is seriously contemplating conservatory, she will want to have the minimum 3-5 hours of <em>daily</em> practice to prepare her auditions.</p>