I’ve been reading various threads about my school options these last couple days. But I’ve found none that address this particular concern in-depth. I have a couple of days to decide between USC and Cal, so I appreciate any thoughts. I’m leaning on Cal but have some concerns.
A lot of folks have told me that Berkeley has lost respect because of all the political turmoil, riots, and free speech controversy. People I know who are conservative say Berkeley has become the laughing stock of the country. However, lots of my liberal friends don’t see it that way. I know you shouldn’t conflate a student body’s politics with the quality of academics at the school. But herd mentality is strong and people don’t care about delineating the two - they complain about the school either way.
Will the criticism Berkeley receives have impacts on the value of my degree? I read a couple of op-eds by students in the Daily Cal that stated the recent bad press definitely affects the optics and perception of Berkeley. And that they predict it might reduce the value of their degrees. I see on FB and hear talk around my town about how Berkeley should be shut down and defunded. It’s really disconcerting. I understand it’s hyperbolic and exaggerated as well, but why does the school get so much flack? I know on here we mainly focus on the academics and how we (as students) view the schools, but is true that outsiders view Berkeley as a bad school? Is true parents don’t want to send their kids there?
In terms of public perception, I do think Berkeley’s reputation has been hurt, at least among some segments of the population. I mentioned that a friend’s son had gotten into Berkeley and my politically somewhat conservative mother instantly asked why anyone would want to go to Berkeley these days. She and my father both graduated from there many years ago. My father went there for law school. Academically, I think its reputation is intact, but the liberal-conservative divide is real and it’s affecting some people’s perception of the school.
I haven’t read much about people’s opinions on Berkeley (other than its academics), but coming from an international student who never hears any news about any political issues at any overseas unis, everyone I know who already knows about Berkeley think it’s a brilliant school for brilliant people.
From what you’ve said, I imagine that people just try to discredit a school because it apparently doesn’t agree with their own political beliefs. However, I think that employers and other academics wouldn’t take this into account, since they would mainly look at how a school is doing academically (unless you’re a political science grad lol)
Oh, forgot to add, I also would guess that the negative comments on Berkeley would only be heard by mainly local people (i.e. in Berkeley, then the bay area, then california, then less and less the farther away we go), since people tend to be more interested in either local news or major world news.
I don’t think it affects prestige. If it is the main data point a person has on the school, it may affect how they think of the place. Even though I think of Ohio State and football as synonymous, I don’t assume everyone who goes there plays or loves football. I would not let this play into my decision.
Even if prestige of Berkeley is not hurt, OP should definitely keep in mind that your freedom of speech will be violated there and should consider other options, where people respect your first amendment.
@bahter, please! “Freedom of speech will be violated there” is just not true. Your political leanings are showing. But if you want to influence your own children not to attend Cal, please do. There are plenty of others who would love to attend such a prestigious university.
People who are dismissing this out of hand are forgetting what happened to Mizzou. No, it didn’t have Berkeley’s prestige, but it was a generally well-regarded college and the effects of the protests and the university’s response have been profound. The protests at Berkeley received extensive national coverage, and I’ve certainly heard from other parents who are adamant about not allowing their kids to apply there. UCLA is so well-regarded now that it’s close in prestige to Berkeley, and look at the large difference in number of applications in 2017: UCLA: 102,177. Berkeley: 85,012 (note that both UCSD and Irvine also received more applications than Berkeley.) So frankly, I think it’s hard to assess at this point how much of a hit Berkeley has taken, and whether it’s a short-term issue or a more significant longer-term one. (And @tasmom, I agree that the rhetoric of freedom of speech being violated was overblown. But there’s no denying that students who are conservative or even moderate at Berkeley are going to be a distinct minority and I’m guessing many won’t feel comfortable being open with their viewpoints, including in the classroom.)
Berkeley’s reputation seems to have survived the free speech/anti-Vietnam/Free Huey/etc. protests and riots of the 60s. I imagine it will survive this era as well.
As far as a new student’s interest is concerned, NOTHING Changed. The student profile, the professor, the study method and material, the internship opportunity, the research opportunity, the publications. So any “optics” does not degrade your EDUCATION. Finally view though “optics” depends on the wearer and many gets temporarily influenced. Academically CAL would be way ahead of USC, would you fit that well in CAL environment, does that matter to you much, that is a personal call.
Cal can fill their class ten times over. If they lose some applications because the applicants can’t see the Milo and Coulter stunts for what they are, then Cal is even more assured of selecting an incoming class of students who are in possession of good critical thinking skills.
Shhh. Don’t say anything else logical, please. My D18 will be applying this year. So please let these threads of “Cal’s prestige is down?” keep running without posting any common sense. It’ll increase the chances of my D getting accepted. Hopefully, applications will be down again in 2017-2018. :)>-
Yeah, until I was 12 or so, I only knew Berkeley as a place where nekkid people on PCP firebombed Patty Hearst while shouting angry free verse at veterans.
I was greatly and pleasantly surprised somewhat later to discover that it was actually a highly regarded university
“applicants can’t see the Milo and Coulter stunts for what they are”
Are you referring to the riots being initiated by outside agitators? Personally, I think Milo and Coulter are total clowns, but they should have been able to speak. So what if many on campus don’t agree with them? Don’t show up to the event and go along about your day instead. Simple. But students were applauding the violence in the school paper and that’s what disturbed many parents and applicants. Frankly, it disturbed me as well. I’m certainly glad those students are only a fringe minority on campus. There are violent groups like BAMN and Antifa that a certain groups of students seem to sympathize with.
Cal is indeed unique among top American universities. Playing in the highest leagues, often as the lone public university in many lists, it is as a disadvantage in various respects, yet, has managed over the decades to be in the topmost tier in a wide range of fields. In terms of research output, or Nobel prizes, or creative output, it matches and surpasses most of the Ivy league. Incredibly rigorous academically, often unforgiving in its grading and organization, yet, Cal is always talked down by the general public and the establishment in this country.
Coming to the present situation, there is clearly a sustained right wing effort to bring Cal’s reputation down, just because of the couple of incidents that happened this year, neither of which involves any significant portion of the student body. Yet, one sees in right wing media and posts on social networks, generalizations implying that Cal’s atmosphere is “intolerant”, the students “don’t do any studying - are just wasting taxpayers’ money” etc… mostly by people who have never set foot on the campus, and have no idea as to Cal’s accomplishments or the nature of its s. It could be partly a resentment of the fact that Cal proves what can be accomplished by a public university or, indeed, it could be resentment of the minority-majority nature of Cal (along with most other UCs by the way - for those who think UCLA or UCSD are going to be radically different).
As others have noted, Cal has overcome such issues in the past (Reagan famously campaigned for California Governor on the promise of “cleaning up the mess in Berkeley”) and there is no reason to believe that the current situation is but a blip in its illustrious history.
