sammyR14 So true. I always come across these ridiculously sensationalized stories and posts on social media about how Cal is an intolerant school and should be defunded and shut down. These posts usually have thousands of comments from people all over the country expressing their disapproval of Cal. But I doubt any of them have been here like you said.
I don’t think people resent the school because of its accomplishments; in fact, whatever respect right-wingers have left for Cal stems from its academic prestige. I think the resentment is purely a product of the political climate on campus. There are more prestigious schools like Stanford down the street that don’t receive the kind of hate Cal does, because that school isn’t known for its left-wing political activism.
TownBizz510, I don’t think the atmosphere at Cal is particularly extreme at all. Most students are minding their own business - in fact Cal’s rigor leaves very little time for most people to indulge in activism. Cal is located in liberal Berkeley and is next to Oakland. Cal’s porous campus allows anyone to come in and it’s literally impossible to control who will be at a protest. The right wing media is just blaming the entire student body for the opinions of a small fraction of the students and the actions of mostly outside agitators. Problem is, mainstream media doesn’t seem to be bothered to correct this impression, and nobody from Cal is trying to counter it either. I agree that the long term damage is nil, but right now, the vast majority of the Cal student body is taking the blame for some small number of external agitators and their sympathizers.
I guess I was referring to what people think it’s like, instead of what it’s actually like. Cause like you said, most of those people haven’t even been there, but base their opinions off what they see in the media.
We toured UCB. I found the buildings to be run down (especially compared to those at UCLA) and the surrounding areas dicey. The conference room for the admissions briefing was decrepit, and the briefing itself was pathetic. Around that time, there were also videos of demonstrators, arms locked, preventing fellow students from entering the campus. Not cool.
UCB has a great academic reputation, no doubt, but so does UCLA. We keep hearing how “fit” is so important. It was very easy to cross UCB off the list.
I do think that the current environment influences parent/student decisions about where to apply (or where to attend, once accepted). There are lots of great universities out there. UCB is not Mizzou, but still. UCB’s academic reputation has not suffered, but its brand has. I imagine that the administration knows that.
Hmm, D really loved UCB during a tour and I’ve posted on other threads and received bunches of warnings against going there because of cuts in funding, resulting in growing class sizes and difficulties getting requested/needed classes. @whatisyourquest, yup, I totally get you about fit. D hated UCLA within 1 minute of stepping foot on campus. Thank God for variety!
^ Yes, to each his/her own. UCLA > UCB for my DS, but I totally get that the reverse may be true for some kids. Apply where you can see yourself fitting in, not based on prestige.
^ As a student at Berkeley, those events made my blood boil. I was already slightly conservative heading into Berkeley and after my first year, I find myself leaning more right.
Yes, the sight of students being forced to detour to get to class hurts the brand and does affect perception by some. The assumption that it’s only people with no familiarity with Berkeley is incorrect. As mentioned earlier, I have a strong family history with Cal, and we’ve also toured there recently (the tour, by the way, was the worst of at least 20 we’ve taken at various campuses. The tour guide was terrible. That’s simply luck of the draw and can happen anywhere, of course, but it doesn’t help with perceptions. We also thought the campus looked rundown compared to other times I’ve visited, and the very serious homeless problem at the edge of campus is a concern.) Again, I think it’s unclear how much its long-term brand has been damaged, because its academic reputation is still stellar. And I’m thrilled for the kids I know who will be going there in the fall. But to say these events, including $100,000 in vandalism to the campus, don’t matter at all seems foolish.
As a parent of a Cal student, am I disappointed at the violence over ideology, that costs the school money and injurs people? Yes. Does this type of activity represent every student, teacher, administrator or employee at that school? Absolutely not. At the end of the day, if the school continues to offer top-notch educators and research, it will continue to attract top-notch students. And anyone who judges a recent grad based solely on the behaviour of a small number of individuals is guilty of the stereotyping we as humans find so easy to do and so quick to condemn.
@Undercrackers The “not all” argument is the weakest form of rhetoric, IMO. It is almost impossible to find any human phenomenon in which literally ALL members of the set respond/behave in precisely the same way. Not all chain smokers die of lung cancer, for instance, but it’s still stupid to smoke. All humans require oxygen and sustenance, sure. Everything else involving human behavior is subject to the nugatory “not all” retort. Hence, the tendency to stereotype.
Not all Evergreen State College and Mizzou grads behave the same way, either. But still, ESC and Mizzou have clearly taken big hits because of recent events at those campuses. And you gotta wonder (given the easily accessible and outrageous youtube videos) what employers today think when ESC and Mizzou resumes cross their desks.
How many violent student protests/blockades at UCB are enough to alter public perception of the university and its graduates? Has it already reached that point? If not, how many more would it take? Where is the line: 1, 5, 10, …? I think that those are the key questions of this thread.
Academically UCB is much stronger then USC. There is a huge difference in cost of attendance, unless OP received substantial financial aid from USC or is a full paying OOS student. Most of Californians prefer UCLA to UCB, but OP doesn’t have this option.
@whatisyourquest Sorry you find my argument weak, even if it’s the truth.
Let’s go back to OP’s post:
Will the criticism Berkeley receives have impacts on the value of my degree?
No way to tell. Data won’t be borne out one way or the other for at least 5 years. Otherwise, speculation.
I see on FB and hear talk around my town about how Berkeley should be shut down and defunded.
So the people in your town have some sort of power to make this happen? No, don’t be ridiculous. Cal is the flagship of the UC system, and that will not change. If these riots/protests are the reason to shut a school down, there would be a lot more schools on the list than just Cal.
I understand it’s hyperbolic and exaggerated as well, but why does the school get so much flack?
Because the general level of behaving badly has risen, and nothing is more fun than tearing those at the top down. And people forget that violent protests are not an uncommon thing on the Cal campus (see 1969) - it’s just been a while.
I know on here we mainly focus on the academics and how we (as students) view the schools, but is true that outsiders view Berkeley as a bad school?
Of course. There is no control over the what the news reports and how people process it.
Is true parents don’t want to send their kids there?
Some don’t, and that’s their choice. However, you cannot run from this stuff. To think that any college campus can be devoid of human beings who don’t hurt, rape, murder or otherwise make others miserable is to live a pipe dream.
At the end of the day, you have to choose what’s right for you.