Has College Admissions (at "top" schools) Become Unsustainably Competitive?

Ding, ding, ding!!! Never heard of it until this thread. My only kiddo is a happily employed engineer. :smiley:

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They have competitions for 57 year olds? :wink:

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I wouldn’t phrase it as “gatekeeping” because only an extremely small portion of admitted students do IMO-type competitions at a national level. Instead the vast majority of admits find other ways to pass the gate, including among unhooked kids. Having an IMO level award can certainly help in admission, but the vast majority of admits have no such award. For example, the Harvard lawsuit analysis found that by far the most common rating combination among admits in the 4 core categories (academics, ECs, personal, and athletics) was no max 1 ratings (corresponding to IMO level) and instead three high 2 ratings and a single average 3/4 rating. For example a 2 in academic, 2 in EC, 2 in personal, and 3/4 athletic. The admit rate for this group was 43% – roughly the same as the 48% overall admit rate for applicants who received a perfect 1 in EC (but may have received less worse than 2 in academic or personal).

It’s also important to distinguish between cause and correlation. I expect that most admits who participated in IMO would still have been admitted if their IMO participation was removed. They usually have a long list of impressive accomplishments both in and out of the classroom, rather than just an isolated award for being among the best in USA in a math-related competition, with nothing else that really stands out elsewhere in their application.

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What resources? It needs a room, an invigilator and pencils and paper. Perhaps teachers don’t want to do anything beyond the minimum mandated by the state/district, but that’s not usually been my experience, there are plenty that volunteer to help with other activities like sports.

I think the biggest barriers are an aversion to long tail tests and special provision for gifted kids, when the focus is on helping those who are behind, not those who are ahead. We’ve had a constant battle over my S’s IEP where some teachers/district staff have an attitude that if you have a B in a class then you don’t need any accommodations.

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A majority of students who took the open exam AMC-8 do not take the AMC-10 or AMC-12. Many drop out due to lack of interest or ability, so for them the opportunity cost is lower.

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The teachers are focused on the kids failing, if you are passing means you don’t need help. The teachers have to mandatory after school tutoring for the kids not passing.

From what I can glean from to CC posts and elsewhere, these competitions are dominated by a few highly competitive prep schools in the northeast. Kids train for these competitions from a young age. This training may include attending intensive camps, hiring tutors, and/or taking classes where instructors/tutors break down types of problems generally presented and teach the kids how to solve them. That’s more than paper and pencil. It reminds me of the academic version of high level club sports.

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It is highly unlikely that you have any idea whether kids in your town are participating in math contests or not. I am certain my daughter’s classmates were unaware of her participating-she never talked about it, neither did I, and it was outside of school. In fact, in this small private school, where everyone knew each other for at least 4 years, the surprise college admit was the awkward boy considered strong but not exceptional in math, who never won a single school award or had leadership positions in anything. Admitted to both Stanford and Yale based on his often-cited published medical research done with a local university. No one at school knew anything about it. You might be surprised by what is going on in your community.

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Most people can use Google to search for “name of city” and math circle. That will provide all the free resources one needs to participate. No need for tutors, camp or prep school.

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I still have no idea why some people believe that most of the kids that do these kinds of competitions are doing them to improve their chances to get into elite colleges.

They most likely do it because a) they like it; b) it is the hardest/most challenging thing they can do.

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Very few high schools offer the sort of football coaching that is going to get you a scholarship to play at Alabama, but does that mean they shouldn’t bother fielding a football team?

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I just looked up the academic report for our district and unfortunately less than 10% of 8 graders are at grade level for Math. This is for 2018-2019 so before Covid.

I will mention to my friend a principal at one of the middle schools about the competitions and the test kids take, maybe one day we can have a Math team.

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AMC8 and Mathcounts are the activities appropriate for middle school. Earlier than that I would recommend chess.

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Apparently you don’t know HS football. There is a kid from a small town around here played as running back in Alabama and they won NC this year.

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It is doable. My father was an elementary school headteacher in a very poor and disadvantaged town, where many of the kids had never even traveled more than 10 miles from home. After I went to college he set up (and donated the money to fund) a math club to bring together kids from his school and several others in the local town, which resulted (a decade later) in several of the students going on to university to study STEM.

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In theory I don’t doubt it, but how does it play out in the real world?

Your b) sounds an awful lot like the instruction often given to kids who aspire to go to top colleges.

My guess is that, if the schools went to competition-blind admissions where they truly did not consider these competitions in admissions and all, then interest in these competitions would wane over time.

Nonetheless, I don’t doubt some kids do it because they love it. Competition is fun. But this doesn’t really address the issues I’ve ineffectively tried to raise.

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Nope, it doesn’t. I did it because it was the hardest thing to do and I never, even for an hour thought about colleges before my senior year. It was just the most challenging thing to do and nothing else.

What should the schools consider then if they don’t consider these competitions? Do they have to stop considering all ECs? All sports? ANYTHING other than GPA (widely varying depending on school) and SAT/ACT (with tens of thousands of students in the 99.9 percentile)?

The interest in these competitions will definitely not wane. There are so many other countries in which these competitions are much more popular and the students don’t even get a leg up in college admission from it.

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And what after that? Stop considering AP and honors classes because so many schools don’t provide them and so many kids pick them to influence the college admissions?

I really don’t understand. where should the college admissions stop.

In theory, true, but I just searched the MAA site for AMC competitions around our zip using the widest radius. No locations for AMC 8. No locations for AMC 10/12. In fact, the closest location is almost 300 miles away. One would have to know they existed and then be highly motivated to participate.

No math circles in our area either. The closest one is 180 miles away.

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Maybe you could find an online club if you are interested. Most major cities have them. Alas, there are always communities in which the struggle to survive takes precedence over other pursuits, whether academic, athletic or other