High test scores don’t get you hired, and low test scores don’t knock you out of contention. The scores are ONE and only one element out of a big basket of stuff that gets considered.
Getting the highest SAT score possible in HS in order to get a job with some bulge bracket investment bank 6 years hence seems like a dumb use of time and energy to me.
You are looking at the negative consequences (which I’m pretty familiar with- we get threatened with lawsuits all the time). But you need to consider the positive consequences as well. High SAT scores can get a candidate from a college nobody has ever heard of in the door. High SAT scores can put a relatively low college GPA into context- kids always say “I didn’t focus on my grades, I focused on learning” which can sometimes be validated by a challenging transcript, high standardized test scores, and a rigorous program (writing an honors thesis, for example). Compare that to the same kid who “didn’t focus on grades, but focused on learning” with the same modest GPA, a transcript filled with “gut” classes, and a resume filled with “social chair of my fraternity”.
Like I said- it’s one element among many. And while you may be encouraging your kid to become an SAT test taking drone in HS, your kid may decide to become a social worker or elementary school teacher or DJ or chef- all fields where scores aren’t really relevant in hiring decisions.
The issues around extra time are much more complex, given the ADA, what constitutes a necessary accommodation and what does not. I will leave it to one of CC’s experts in that arena to weigh in.
No company picks a candidate solely based on SAT scores but it’s part of an evaluation. The score does have its value in separating potentially weak candidates as @blossom has indicated. Not all companies are in a position to design their own comprehensive tests. Some may even use it as a supplement to their own tests. The phenomena of mechanical test preps and repetitive testing are fairly recent and can be partially addressed by asking for all test results.
Yes, I saw the one anecdotal example of your friend, and I never meant to imply no one who was redirected ever got into anywhere but Riverside, but others shared their own experiences (and that of their peers) in the link I provided above stating that they felt a need to be careful when choosing their first choice for fear of being shut out.
I don’t want to get too far off topic here, but my main point was to clarify why acceptance rates were so much higher at UCs prior to 1986. .
I expect college has gotten easier at most places. The percentage of the population going to college has steadily increased for decades, so you get more unqualified students attending. Combine that with grade inflation, and college likely has gotten easier.
UVA’s McIntire school is generally considered a top 10 undergrad program. In 2016, the average SAT score of its students was 1346. While that is a st fine score, employers might seek an applicant with 1500 level scores indicating a different level of math mastery in a highly quantitative field.
Asking for SAT scores from a college graduate is strange. It would be like a NFL scout recruiting a player based on their high school performance and not their past four years in college. I don’t believe the conspiracy theories the test is racially biased, but it’s designed to predict college performance. After they finish a BA/BS, you can look at their college transcript to see their degree of math mastery. The SAT measures your ability to do easy problems fast. If you have to rely on high school test scores, I would look at how they did on the AP calculus and AP statistics exams.
Even many of the top hedge funds ask for test scores, so they must see some value in the scores. Perhaps they use the scores in the same way as college AOs.
^There’re all sorts of hedge funds. The smart ones actually made a killing as a result of the 2008 financial crisis. The culprits of the crisis were actually the investment banks and the Fed with its low interest rate policy.
Mastery of lower level high school math at the time the person was in high school? As opposed to the presence of and grades in higher level math (and/or statistics and/or other quantitative) courses on the (presumably more recent) college record?
“Mastery of lower level high school math at the time the person was in high school?”
That’s not how companies view the SATs, as some low level math, in these cases the companies view it as a proxy for intelligence. A person scoring a 1600 on the SATs is more intelligent than a person scoring a 1000, that’s their perception. If you want to tell them it’s 8’th grade math, go for it, I doubt you’ll get any traction.
"As opposed to the presence of and grades in higher level math (and/or statistics and/or other quantitative) courses on the (presumably more recent) college record? "
Again, these companies view grades in college more subjectively, as in they may be a function of grade inflation. SATs are a hard number, you can’t grade grub a 1600.
No, Bear collapsed because of its subprime business. BSAM unit headed by Ralph Cioffi wasn’t really a hedge fund. It made large, highly leveraged, and unhedged bets on the subprime market via a structured vehicle called CDO. It was never considered “smart money” but it was large because Cioffi had influence within Bear to commit large amount of capital.
However, even supposedly smart hedge funds do collapse. The most famous example is LTCM run by a former Salomon vice chairman and had a couple of Nobel Laureates in economics as co-founders. It collapsed in the '98 crisis due to its extraordinarily high levels of leverage. Bear Stearns was also involved as a lender (prime broker), and its margin call triggered LTCM’s collapse.
Surely asking for test scores is occurring precisely because employers have lost confidence in the college records and are hoping for some objective assessment of ability. As @Blossom pointed out, she has interviewed employees with fine grades from good schools who utterly lack the necessary skills, and I expect other employers have similar experiences. Asking for national test scores may be helpful in limiting that risk. For those so bothered that the test was in high school, take a current test if that better reflects one’s ability. Harvard did a study years ago showing GMAT scores peak at age 19.
Some students are either not prepared or not really suited to college. I’m big on giving everyone a chance, but the avenue for that is community colleges.
If college is so meaningless, why don’t they just hire new graduates from high school based on their SAT scores? Or do they need them to pass through elite colleges to ensure that they came from high SES backgrounds or have been socialized for four years in a high SES environment?
Of course, the high school student barely paid attention in high school and did not take the SAT, or who attended a poor-quality high school that did not teach enough math and English to do well on the SAT, may have (possibly after some years of work or military service) become more motivated, done well in community college, transferred to a university, and done well there (a type of community college success story), only to be rejected by employers for missing or low SAT scores from high school.
Or the opposite, @ucbalumnus. It levels the playing field by identifying high scoring kids regardless of where they attended college, so Ivies dont have a lock. Most of the top finance firms have a special entry program for veterans, and often firstgen, so that isn’t a concern, either. There are thousands of applicants for each position at those firms. It is one more factor that helps in culling, and within the applicant’s control whether to get a more recent high score. If they don’t or can’t, that is notable too.
Presumably that is why Google has used their own proprietary tests for many years, usually related to ability to handle algorithms and coding problems. Google doesn’t rely on or require college degrees usually either.