<p>And THAT's why choosing your safety college is your most important choice. It's easy to load up your application list with famous "reach" colleges--everyone does here on CC--but it's hard to find a college that is both a sure bet for admission and a solid choice for its academic programs, especially if you live in a state in which the state flagship university is of dubious quality.</p>
<p>Our amazingly qualified valedictorian last year was rejected from all his top schools, and ended up going to Berkely, which is not at all average or lowly, but he was rather crushed.</p>
<p>yea i do, the kid happened to go to illinois. i think they all had crappy essays</p>
<p>Remember also that recommendations count. If you're a suck up, or if you treat your classmates badly, or if you are ONLY your grades, with no other redeeming qualities, it will come through in the recommendations your teachers write for you.</p>
<p>There are other things that elite colleges care about besides your grades and scores. There are thousands of kids with great grades and scores. They're looking for something extra -- a passion of some sort. And, IMO, you can't fake it.</p>
<p>This did happen to a friend of mine, but he wasn't the all As in 10 APs type student bobmallet1 is talking about. He was a decent student (as many Bs as As, almost, with a C here and there) with some interesting ECs, and he seemed “intellectual” at a high school where many students are more “jocky,” so I think he (and perhaps is councilor?) deluded himself into thinking he was a fabulous student. Therefore, he applied to a list that was perfectly reasonable to the kind of student he thought he was (the kind bobmallet1 is talking about): in the “worst case” possibility, that kind of student would have at LEAST gotten into the “regular safety,” which was a pretty good LAC strong in this person’s interests. However, my friend was NOT that kind of student, that LAC was more of a match (his only match, the rest were reaches), and therefore he didn't get in anywhere but his two "ultra safeties": a local state school (not a top one) and a small local private (that he's enjoying ok but that is not in the US World New top 100 if it is ranked at all, which, given that this guy thoughts he was going to end up at a top ten university, is quite a blow). </p>
<p>Although this guy wasn’t a top student, he certainly could have ended up at a top 100 university or LAC, probably even top 50 or even top 30 if he’d found a reasonable reach where he really clicked. If nothing else, he could have gotten into our state flagship or a separate state honors college, both of which are very good. However, since he completely misevaluated his chances, he only applied to one match (and got unlucky, probably because he didn’t really show much interest because he thought he was guaranteed “in”…I mean, seriously, bragged about how some kids were applying to that school as a reach, and it was funny because it would be so easy for him to get in) and then a bunch of rather impossible reaches. </p>
<p>The point is: yes, this is possible, and you’ve REALLY got to make sure to have all your bases covered. (I knew another kid how only got into University of Richmond, which is a very good school, but since he thought he was going to an Ivy, he’s still very bitter and can’t even enjoy the schools he’s at).</p>
<p>"Mediocre state school" = big fish in a small pond, which leads to honors upon graduation, which leads to grad school acceptance, which can be paid for with the money you saved by going to state school. If you're going to seel out for prestige then wait for grad.</p>
<p>And, nobody's Rory Gilmore, that doesn't happen in real life. Apply to a safety that makes you happy.</p>
<p>I have seen a lot of kids with 4.0's and every AP their school offers get rejected by the top tier. These are kids who also had accomplishments out of the classroom. Looking back, I could guess that other than pure luck the kids who DID get in had something more. Perhaps it was passion. Maybe they were kids who did well for thier own reasons and not because they were just nice kids following the rules, or uber ambitious kids who just wanted to get ahead. Those two reasons for high school success tend not to be reliable predictors of long-term achievement (IMO).</p>
<p>bobmallet1:</p>
<p>
[quote]
so there is no such thing as an outstanding student (all As in 10 AP classes) who is all around great getting rejected from ivies and the competitive non-ivies and having to settle for something like northeastern or arizona state university?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You are conflating "great student" with "great applicant." The two are NOT the same.</p>
<p>Sure, you're a great student if you take eleventy billion APs and get all 5s. However, if you can't write a convincing essay, get good letters of recommendation, or otherwise show adcoms that you can do anything that doesn't involve a textbook, you aren't a great applicant. Adcoms are not looking for just great students - they're looking for great applicants.</p>
<p>Rory Gilmore only had a few extracurriculars. Unless Chilton is the fictional equivalent of Andover, her story is pretty unrealistic.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Rory Gilmore only had a few extracurriculars. Unless Chilton is the fictional equivalent of Andover, her story is pretty unrealistic.
[/QUOTE]
Unrealistic to the max. I mean, of course she'd get into Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. Its just soooo logical.</p>
<p>Yes...2240 SAT 4.04 GPA , model UN We The People State champs, lifeguard club involvement. She didn't join the National Honor Society..it's the only thing I could think of. Rejected from Georgetown, UVA, UPenn,Tufts.Accepted to All Honors in the state schools and Honors in the private school she's attending</p>
<p>This happened to our class valedictorian. Actually, both of them (the counselor loved them both so much, she gave them both the title). He was the best our school had to offer. His 32 on the ACT was the highest in our senior class, and the other had a 28. Apparently, this is nothing here on CC, but it was big at our school. He was involved in many of the clubs, on the basketball team after a few parental visits, and was the model student. This was a kid who cried, literally broke down into tears, if he got below a 95 on anything at all. He applied to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, and a few other Ivy or almost Ivy League schools. Then he applied to the state's school as his safety. This was his safety, and nothing more. He was the only student known to apply to an Ivy. He didnt get into any of them, and you wont believe the shock that went around the school. If he didnt get in, the rest of us hadnt a chance. </p>
<p>Hes at his safety now, where both of his parents went so he had double legacy. They wouldnt give him a full ride, though, which made the rest of us even sadder. He might have been able to attend some better schools, but when everyone around you is saying It doesnt matter, youll get in, you dont worry about that. Guidance was horrible, too. Id never heard of all this safety, match, and reach nonsense before I started surfing CC, which was too late. I didnt know my stats sucked so much compared to the rest of the nation or at least most of the kids around here. We didn't even know how important the PSAT was, they told us that it didn't seriously matter but if you did well, you might get a scholarship. Sorry, I'm rambling.</p>
<p>^ooh, thats sucks... You know why he was rejected from so many schools?</p>
<p>
[quote]
You know why he was rejected from so many schools
[/quote]
Probably because they're all schools with a lower than 20% acceptance rate. Even with perfect scores, and perfect grades, the odds are that any individual will be rejected from all the Ivies. There doesn't have to be a "reason".</p>
<p>
[quote]
He might have been able to attend some better schools, but when everyone around you is saying “It doesn’t matter, you’ll get in”, you don’t worry about that. Guidance was horrible, too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That really was horrible guidance. NO ONE should be telling students with a 32 ACT and from a high school where few students apply to Ivy League colleges that they are in for sure at "Harvard, Princeton, Yale," and similar colleges. And a student who literally cries when he gets less than a 95 on a high school assignment is not emotionally ready for Ivy League academic standards either (which, if this was known to an admission committee, could be a basis for not getting in). Bad advice all around. </p>
<p>It's BIZARRE that this kid didn't get a full ride somewhere, though. That's all from lack of applying to the right range of colleges. Many colleges would be happy to have such a student and would back that up with an offer of a full tuition waiver, a grant for room and board, and other inducements to enroll. </p>
<p>Apply widely, from the safety on up, is the moral of this story. Oh, yeah, and get some perspective on how common different levels of ACT scores are. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.act.org/news/data/07/pdf/National2007.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.act.org/news/data/07/pdf/National2007.pdf</a> </p>
<p>(table 2.1)</p>
<p>Here in California our public Universities run the gamut from international renown (Berkeley) to top-50 (6 of the UC campuses) and on down the scale of selectivity. Many students can apply to reach, target and safety schools just by checking different boxes on the UC application which goes to up to 9 universities. Two years ago one of my son's friends only applied to Berkeley, UCLA, Stanford, USC and some out of state colleges. He refused to consider any other UC's, convinced that he would be accepted to one of the "top two." He wound up at University of Colorado - a fine school, but less selective than several in-state colleges he probably would have been accepted to - and a lot more expensive for out of state students!</p>
<p>I hate to say this because I like the boy and his family - but there was definitely a certain amount of arrogance involved in the process which led to that result. A more realistic appraisal of "chances" might have taken him down a different road.</p>
<p>About Rory Gilmore and whether her admission to HYP was realistic...</p>
<p>I think that Chilton was supposed to be an Andover type of place. Or a day school in the same league. So Rory was at one of the most rigorous schools in the country, and she earned excellent grades. Wasn't she also Valedictorian? She came from a single parent family, and her parent did not attend college. Additionally, her grandparents on BOTH sides were capable of gifting high six figure sums to whatever school she attended (her maternal grandfather was a Yale alum, and eventually a professor there). Rory and her mother were the only heirs of her maternal grandparents. That is a compelling applicant.</p>
<p>Besides, her best friend was her mom and she was capable of consuming 5,000 calories a day without gaining weight. Who wouldn't want to admit a kid like that?</p>
<p>My niece had straight A's and went to a small high school in a small-town area. She was valedictorian. ACT score of 29. Good extracurriculars and good community involvement. Her guidance counsellor told her, in all seriousness, "You will be accepted anywhere you apply." (Her top choice college was a nice in-state private school with a great program in her planned major, that was the only place she applied, she got a half tuition scholarship, and she is now a sophomore there and as happy as can be.)</p>
<p>If you are from a school that hasn't sent a kid to an Ivy, your guidance counsellor may have no experience in what it takes to get into an Ivy league school. Niece's school offered only two years of foreign language. The school offered no AP classes.</p>
<p>My daughter's school sends many students to Ivy League schools every year, and the guidance counsellors tell the students that no matter how good their application is (last year we had three kids with perfect scores, one 36 and two 2400's) that figuring out what colleges they will get into is unpredictable, especially for the colleges that accept less than 20% of applicants, Ivy or not. They say things like "You <em>should</em> get in, but you can't count on it."</p>
<p>Rory Gilmore's school Chilton is the fictional equivalent of Choate seeing as the names are similar and they are both located in that area of Connecticut. I applied there, but went somewhere else, but I know there are people there that do get into HYP every year. JFK went there, 'nuff said.</p>
<p>This happens every year. It happens to kids who are a little beyond their britches and reaching too far and aren't reasonable in their expectations and it happens to decent kids with outstanding scores who just are unlucky. Students should always pick 3 or so match schools and 2 or 3 safety schools and embrace them. A reach school is fine, if you get in. But if you don't plan your application game appropriately, you may find yourself scrambling and looking for a gap year or schools with late admissions dates.</p>
<p>The good news is that often the best school for you is your match or safety school which you embrace. Its never easy to get bad news. But if you are mature and look forward you can turn it into a healthy learning experience and move on with grace and ease. </p>
<p>It happened to us. The only thing that we remain bitter about is hearing stories of kids with much lower scores and frankly not a whole lot more to explain them who got into some elite schools. But we are happy and proud now and doing very well. Being happy and successful in college is the goal, not collecting acceptance letters from top name schools.</p>