<p>In addition to his reach and match schools, my senior son has applied to the University of Alabama and Georgia Tech. Now, he's considering Clemson because of its excellent reputation in engineering and the fact that his grades and stats are way above their averages--making it feasible for him to get considerable merit money.</p>
<p>When I read about Clemson in the Fiske guide, there were raves for the engineering program, but the focus of campus life seemed to be on sports and greek life, neither of which interest my son. The students were described as conservative with a Southern Baptist learning. My son is Jewish, raised by liberal gay parents in a liberal California town. He's never known anything else.</p>
<p>I'd love to hear from parents whose kids have chosen to go to schools (for merit money reasons) that they might not have otherwise chosen. How did it work out? </p>
<p>I'd also like to hear stories about kids who have gone to schools that have a culture very different from the one they were raised in. How did it work out? Was the money worth the trade-offs? Was it an expansive learning experience or an experience of isolation and unhappiness?</p>
<p>I have no personal knowledge to help you but it is an interesting question and deserves to be bumped. Hopefully, some people with kids at these southern schools can tell you about the environment. I’d be wary in your shoes that your son will find enough people with similar liberal values to be comfortable. Of course, college is partly about opening up to different kinds of people and points of view.</p>
<p>Clemson, by my standards, is fairly well isolated. It is 10 miles to the interstate and not near any really big cities. </p>
<p>We are Jewish and from Atlanta, but I grew up in the deep south. While I know many Jewish kids at Alabama, I can’t say the same about Clemson, which isn’t to say that there aren’t some.</p>
<p>Lately, a few Jewish kids have been going to southern schools that my generation would have never considered. Many of their parents find Hillel to be a good source and generally pretty honest.</p>
<p>My own child is at a school where the student population is far more conservative that I am, but he is so apolitical that it wouldn’t bother him. </p>
<p>How tuned in is your child to other’s beliefs?</p>
<p>My son isn’t religious at all–more of a secular Jew, but definitely not Christian and has never been around very religious people at all. So Hillel would not be his thing–it’s just that being in a very conservative environment is hard to imagine for him. I’m not sure how homogeneous Clemson is. Mostly my son loves music (singing) and is an intellectual.</p>
<p>I would be very hesitant to send him to such a different cultural environment. These are all very conservative schools and it will definitely be a challenging environment for him to be in. Have you visited the schools? I think he might be able to get a feel for whether or not he’d be comfortable there after visiting.</p>
<p>I agree with holliesue. I have friends with children at all three of those schools. Your description of your son’s background would be nearly polar opposite to most of the students at those schools–with the possible except of GA Tech because it is in Atlanta.</p>
<p>All three have very strong Greek systems and a very “rah-rah” environment for athletics. As an FYI, Clemson has no “traditionally Jewish” fraternities; Bama and GaTech have one and two, respectively.</p>
<p>I’ve been to Clemson, SC. Liberal, gay, Jewish parents from California would certainly make your son an unrepresented minor there! Surely there are other good engineering schools that would be a better fit.</p>
<p>How often–if at all–has your son been in situations where he is with peers from less left-leaning communities and families? How does he feel in such situations, especially when LGBT topics come up? I also live in a very liberal community, one with many two-mom households. Commonly, when children venture out of our “bubble,” they are surprised by how different the world can seem. Even when the kids from our most traditional families head off to college, some are surprised that their new classmates don’t know anyone from a two-mom household. If your son lands in an environment where he is constantly explaining his home life–and perhaps defending it as well–how is he likely to react? </p>
<p>I’ve counseled students in the past who went to colleges where the campus culture made them fish out of water. (I’m talking about not only liberal kids who went to conservative campuses but also the opposite.) The ones who seemed the happiest were those with a gadfly gene. That is, they enjoyed being outspoken and often recognized on campus for their differences. Does this sound like your son, or does he prefer to blend in?</p>
<p>Chai, glad you’ve getting support along with some helpful info on campus culture. I was quite surprised by the dismissive responses to similar inquiries regarding low numbers/percentage of black students on campus. </p>
<p>As for beign agadfly, ok to to be outspoken and comfortable (or even happy) being recognized as ng different on a campus that at embraces/supports diversity - - otherwise I’d be wary. And, as with racial diversity, I’m not sure it’s a question of blending in or standing out. Most students don’t want to be “just a number” or to blend into the woodwork, but they do want a critical mass of like-minded peers and at least the possibility of having some same-value kids in their circle of friends.</p>
<p>My son was really not an active Jew but on his very conservative and I would say very Christian public school campus he has found a haven of people at Hillel. My husband and I laugh that he has done more Jewish stuff in the last month than in the last 4 years. </p>
<p>GA Tech actually doesn’t have a huge Greek population, at least not like UGA or other big southern Us. Almost none of my son’s friends who are there pledged. GA Tech is the most diverse of the three for sure and I think there is a nice size Jewish population there. There are Jewish fraternities at both Tech and Bama.</p>
<p>The engineering program at Bama is really up and coming and if his stats are good enough he will get a full ride including room and board. The engineering students live in a very nice, new dorm.</p>
<p>I am curious what Fiske says about Alabama? Is it the same as Clemson?</p>
<p>It is essential though that you visit Alabama when students are there. The same with the other schools. </p>
<p>One other thing to consider is that Atlanta has an international airport that will make visits, both ways, easier. For Clemson and Bama, I am guessing that you will need to add several hours each way to get to an airport.</p>
<p>I think there is a big difference between encountering people of diverse opinion in college, and being in an environment where a large segment of the population regards your parents as perverts who will burn in hell, and aren’t shy about telling you so.</p>
<p>I assume it is the latter that worries you. Justifiably so, IMHO.</p>
<p>At one point we contemplated a move to Chattanooga. We visited the local UU church, and the minister told us that her son had been confronted by a schoolmate and informed that UUs were “devil worshipers.” He responded that we don’t believe in the devil, much less worship him, which I think was a good comeback for an 11-yr-old. But this is not a desirable situation. It is natural for a parent to be concerned about the possibility.</p>
<p>I have no particular insight into the schools in question, but Atlanta is known as a fairly sophisticated city with one of the highest gay populations in the south. I actually know two kids at Clemson who are neighbors of ours. Both were raised in a socially liberal Christian environment, and seem happy there.</p>
<p>I’d say my son hasn’t had much exposure to anyone outside of the bubble he’s been raised in. He does like to argue, though, so he might be open to having to take a minority point of view. Our exploration of these schools began purely for financial reasons–applying to school in an area where you stand out geographically, he stands out. He’s a NMF and has got stats quite a bit above the average for these schools, so the possibility of merit money is a real possibility for him. Applying to some of the other tech schools on the west and east coasts–well there, he’d be one of many who look quite similar to him.</p>
<p>Also, as of now, we haven’t visited any of these schools–and won’t, for economic reasons, unless he makes the cut as a scholarship finalist. If it comes down to choosing one of these school comes April, he certainly would visit before deciding to attend.</p>
<p>I actually have to say that I have Baptist friends who love me, and probably pray for me because they know I am going to Hell. But I grew up in the south, and so I am more than use to it. I am blessed with mostly friends who are Jewish, Catholic, atheist and agonistic. We all joke that we are going to Hell together. The Jewish students I know at Bama are all very happy.</p>
<p>I think you need to be worried about fit. The religion issue is one thing but the fact that your son has Gay parents is entirely another. Without bashing my region of birth to much, this isn’t the most tolerant area of the country. </p>
<p>I will say that I think your son would be fine at Tech. There have been Jews there for a long time, my dad is an alumni and a big chunk of their in state students come from Metro Atlanta or right outside metro Atlanta. (Parents in other parts of the state are often to frightened to send their children to school in Atlanta. There are lots of school systems in GA that haven’t sent a student to Tech in decades.)</p>
<p>I went to graduate school there and I don’t think the students have enough time to worry about others – they are to busy studying.</p>
<p>I am a very liberal secular Jew. I am also middle aged. There are plenty of times in my past where I have found myself in pretty alien territory. I cope in different ways, depending on the situation, the stakes, etc. There is no way I would subject myself to four years of that. My kids would not chose a school that does not have a fairly sizable liberal student body. My daughter is applying this year, and one of her schools, Colorado College, is pretty liberal, but it is in one the most conservative cities in the country (Focus on the Family is based there) If it is still on the list in March, we will really have to consider what it would be like to spend four years there.</p>
<p>If what you are looking for is schools that offer both engineering and generous merit scholarships look at these: </p>
<p>University of Pittsburgh- up to full tuition
University of Rochester in upstate NY- up to 1/2 tuition and
Rensselaer Poytechnic- up to $15k if your kid’s school has signed up to award the RPI medal to an outstanding junior. (Be sure to tell the GC he is very interested in RPI)</p>
<p>Take a look at the threads for Generous Merit Scholarships and NMF</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies. I think we’ll pass on the Clemson application and see what happens with the other two we’ve already applied to. He’s applying all over–east coast, west coast, two midwest schools. So we’ll see.</p>
<p>Jew. Liberal, gay parents: Three strikes. If I were in your shoes, I would not want to chance it without actuality visiting and validating over and over again.</p>
<p>Also you have great engineering schools in California: CalTech, the UC system (Berkley, LA, SD, Irvine, UCSB,) Cal Poly SLO, USC, Harvey Mudd, Santa Clara etc.</p>
<p>My son was homeschooled in a VERY conservative Christian home and pretty much NO diversity.However, he REALLY wanted to attend University of MD College Park. This was MUCH different than the “home” environment he was accustomed to for the past 10 years. Although we were a nervous wreck over “letting him go,” this was something HE wanted. I think that is important in selecting a school with such big cultural and religious differences. That being said, he LOVES it there. I laugh when I see his facebook “friend” list - the diversity of ethnic backgrounds has been refreshing. He has a group of friends he has met who has similar religious beliefs, but has not restricted himself to only those friends. I am pleased and proud of the way he is developing into an independent young man. That being said, he is only a freshman and I am not naive enough to think that values we feel are important, might not be so important to him in 4 years.</p>
But this is not a desirable situation. It is natural for a parent to be concerned about the possibility.</p>