<p>I’ve always thought that a pizza place would be the easiest business to run :D</p>
<p>They’re everywhere, and everyone likes pizza.</p>
<p>my exboyfriend didn’t eat pizza haha
…more for me</p>
<p>Didn’t read all of the posts here as it’s pretty late, but recently I’ve considered foregoing my life long goal of medicine and just saying **** it all and go become a bartender, live a simple life of dull pleasures.</p>
<p>Decided against that though (for the present moment), going to school on a full ride majoring in my passion, philosophy, and figuring it out from there. Really have no idea where I’m aiming, which is a shame because I used to feel so sure. Maybe law, maybe a professor (haha yeah right).</p>
<p>Being self-employed means you’re only counting on one person to pay the bills - you. ~ Pandem</p>
<hr>
<p>I understand the point you are trying to make, but it seems unrealistic.</p>
<p>Because everyone has a boss - everyone.</p>
<p>If you work at a “typical” company you might have one or two direct bosses, but if you operate your own business and hae 30 clients - you have 30 bosses.</p>
<p>And they will really dictate whether or not you can pay your bills. You could lose clients from no fault of your own, from things completely out of your control. Your clients could go out of business, your clients could file bankruptcy and not pay their debts, you could be undercut/under-bid by a competing company, ect.</p>
<p>When you are in business for yourself, you aren’t realying on just yourself to pay the bills. You are really relying on the economy itself, and every client you’ve accumulated.</p>
<p>For example, I had an uncle who owned a tool & die shop that employed 35 people. They mainly supplied molds for a local GE plant. Then the GE plant laid-off 250 people, and essentially eliminated the division in which my uncle provided services too.</p>
<p>During this same time major outsourcing and competition grew from China. Companies in China could do the same work he was doing (albiet it poor quality), but for half the price because their labor costs were so low.</p>
<p>Eventually, he closed the business because there just wasn’t anymore work. He couldn’t be competitive on any major projects because there was no way he could out-bid the foreign market, so the only work he could compete with was local projects were the shipping costs were low enough to counter-act the labor costs - but the local economy had slowed down so much there was, 1) Few projects available, 2) Those projects were split between several competing companies. </p>
<p>So in reality, while it may seem like business owners are independent - they aren’t, and what makes it worse is that instead of only being responsible for yourself to pay your own bills, you are responsible for the livelyhoods of dozens of other peoples as well. </p>
<p>I mean, do you know what kind of stress that is? Imagine if you went to bed every night and thought, “Gee, business sure is slow - if I close down, 25 families will lose their income, maybe there homes, ect.”</p>
<p>Scary stuff.</p>
<p>No obviously, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t start a business if you have a viable business to start, but some people are painting some idealistic picture of what it’s like - and it’s really true.</p>
<p>Earlier you mentioned “slavery”, as in people with typical 9-5 jobs are slaves. Could be true for some. But just about every business owners I’ve met is the one who is a slave to his business. It completely consumes them.</p>
<p>My father owns a business in real-estate, and it has wrecked his marriage and his credit. He would spend all his time running his business and taking phone calls, oftentimes not coming home until late at night. Now, he has tons of loans tied to those apartments/housing units in the ghetto, and the people that worked for him were just useless and a big headache. He regrets ever starting the business and not taking that full-time teaching position at a community college.</p>
<p>I personally will NOT be going that route. I’d rather work for a hospital or school, know my hours, and then come home and relax. A slave to the work? Puh-lease. As a RN, I will be able to do whatever I want, specialize in whatever I want, and work wherever I please. I can work PT and still make 30,000/yr, or I could work just weekends and have M-F off. I can travel, I can use all that free time to write books, take cooking classes, anything I like. Sure I won’t be “my own boss” but I won’t have the constant stress of running my own business. And that, to me, is freedom.</p>
<p>You’re both using extreme examples to justify a normal job. Obviously self-employment isn’t a guaranteed endeavor, but to suggest that everyone goes into business is irrevolocably damaged from debt is false. Is running your own company risky? Of course it is. </p>
<p>Don’t point to one example about tool-making (a narrow, dying field in the US) and real estate to declare entrepreneurship too dangerous. Going into a field that’s oversatured and dynamic (real estate) or shrinking and moving offshore (manufacturing) aren’t good business ideas to begin with.</p>
<p>@Princess. Your father isn’t a good businessman, or just got unlucky - period. Real estate is hardly a guaranteed field, and ruining his credit doesn’t sound like a smart plan. That’s just bad business. </p>
<p>I’m not sure how one could be passionate about running a tool company or selling houses for a living – at that point it’s just another job. Most successful entrepreneurs are passionate about what they’re doing – they’re not just there to make a buck and pay the bills. So yes, I would argue that being self-employed for the sake of being self employed probably isn’t worth it. You’ve got to be committed and believe in the idea.</p>
<p>I never said the 9-5 was slavery, I meant that losing the right to work for yourself is tantamount to slavery. This country was built on free enterprise…hopefully I don’t have to argue that. I said that seeking out a job for the purpose of comfort is an easy way out. Being a nurse is great, but only if you want to be a nurse, and not because it’s a “good job”. The world won’t be changed by folks looking for comfortable office jobs with nice benefits.</p>
<p>You have a pretty naive outlook.</p>
<p>But I guess that is expected since you are just a college student who hasn’t experienced the real world yet.</p>
<p>Most people aren’t looking to change the world, just provide a good life for themselves and their family. </p>
<p>You are just speaking through the voice of inexperience youth, which is admirable, but naive.</p>
<p>So why even try, right?
We should all work for the government because it pays well and has good benefits, right?</p>
<p>Psh. Enjoy your 9-5 comfortable life. I’d rather fail a million times than not try in the first place.</p>
<p>BigeastBeast if this were facebook I would “like” your post! But it’s not, so I’ll just say it: I really like your post!</p>
<p>Some people are perfectly happy with whatever kind of job they get. A job selling tools is a job. Some people would be thrilled to be able to get a job like that, and they would take great pride in getting to have that job. Plus, some people just love tools and helping people find what they need for whatever projects they’re working on. A real estate agent might find someone their dream home. They’re finding homes that couples might start families in and that kids might grown in until they’re off to college. I can definitely see why someone would take pride in that :)</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter how worthless or pointless you might think a job is. At the end of the day, if you can call it a job well done and take home money to support yourself and your family, then plenty of people are going to be proud of that!</p>
<p>bigeastbeast - you’re absolutely right. self-employed or not, people work out of necessity more than passion. Income is a means to an end, it enables you to do whatever else you’re interested in. </p>
<p>The two choices then are:</p>
<p>1.) Do you want to maximize the amount you can make even if the job is miserable?
2.) Do you want a job that you enjoy even if it’s not the most lucrative option for you?</p>
<p>in reality we’re all probably somewhere in the middle, it’s essentially a value proposition with a sliding scale.</p>
<p>You’re both using extreme examples to justify a normal job ~ Pandem</p>
<hr>
<p>Neither examples were extreme, in fact - they were both very common examples of what happens when you own a business. You seem to have a very unrealistic outlook on what being a business owner really like.</p>
<p>In an earlier post you made a reference to being a “slave” to a 9-5 job, but the truth is that most business owners are much more consumed or as you would say “enslaved”, but their work. You have no other option than to work nights, weekend, holidays, ect - because the buck ends with you. </p>
<p>You statements that a successful entrepreneur needs “passion” for the work, is only partly true. They need a passion to succeed, and a passion to excel, but once the reality of ownership smacks you in the face - all that passion is irrelevant. Because the “passion” is replaced with “reality”, and in reality, it’s due or die - your family eats based on what you bring in, and what you bring in is very dependent on the success of other business and the whims of the economy. It’s not based on your “passion” as you imply. </p>
<p>In fact, that sort of lifestyle can out-right stomp every once of passion in a person. Working 70-90 hour work weeks, the stress of not being able to make payroll, layoffs, losing clients, lawsuits, banks cutting your credit, ect. - will all beat a person down mentally. You don’t pay peoples salaries or vendors with passion, so if that’s your business plan, good luck - you’ll need it.</p>
<p>The fact that you think the example I provided and that of ThePrincessBride were “extreme”, shows you really don’t know spit about business or how they operate. Both those examples were very typical and extremely common. In fact, those scenarios are much more common than it would be to start a business and for it to be profitable - most don’t make it, and when they do work it comes at a great sacrifice.</p>
<p>Most companies don’t turn a profit for 3-5 years, which means you go without a paycheck. During that time, will your passion put food on your families table? </p>
<p>I’m not discouraging you from starting a business (as if you had any skills to offer), I’m just trying to tell you what a unrealistic attitude you have towards it.</p>
<p>So why even try, right?
We should all work for the government because it pays well and has good benefits, right?</p>
<p>Psh. Enjoy your 9-5 comfortable life. I’d rather fail a million times than not try in the first place. ~ Pandem</p>
<hr>
<p>Another naive comment coming from a person who hasn’t walked the walk yet.</p>
<p>In theory, it’s great to say “I will try a million times”, but life isn’t theory and after you fail a couple times you will be bankrupt and nothing to show for it.</p>
<p>You also seem to have some wierd idea that entrepreneurs start businesses to “change the world” or “explore their passion” - that is all bogus idealist chatter.</p>
<p>In reality, people start businesses because they see an opportunity to make money. If they don’t think they can turn a profit, they aren’t going to start a business that will just cause them financial ruin.</p>
<p>If your “change the world” theory were true, those people would be starting charities and non-profits, or working in the 3rd world doing humanitarian work.</p>
<p>Some companies are able to do both - make money and help a cause, but those a niche businesses and aren’t really typical of a business ownership experience.</p>
<p>Besides, most people just don’t say, “I want to start a business - let me think what to do”, instead they have experience in a field then decide they could do it profitably on their own.</p>
<p>You have a bizarre outlook that self-ownership = happiness, which is fatally flawed.</p>
<p>P.S. While you are failing a million times, who’s going to be supporting your family? Who will be paying your bills?</p>
<p>bigeastbeast - you’re absolutely right. self-employed or not, people work out of necessity more than passion. Income is a means to an end, it enables you to do whatever else you’re interested in. </p>
<p>The two choices then are:</p>
<p>1.) Do you want to maximize the amount you can make even if the job is miserable?
2.) Do you want a job that you enjoy even if it’s not the most lucrative option for you?</p>
<p>in reality we’re all probably somewhere in the middle, it’s essentially a value proposition with a sliding scale. ~ QKain</p>
<hr>
<p>In some other thread I told my own story of previous job. It was a job that I had a “passion” for, at least I thought I did. But the company was run by A-Holes, the managers were rude and treated the employees like crap, I had no life outside of work, they called me in on my days off - it was really bad.</p>
<p>Then I left and got a new job. The new job wasn’t something I really had a passion for, but they treated their employees great, it didn’t intrude into my personal life, and it allowed me to be happy again.</p>
<p>So this idea that a person can only be happy doing something they are passionate for is crap. </p>
<p>Your happiness with your career won’t be dictated by the actual work you do, but the environment you do it in.</p>
<p>Now, I’m a bit in the middle. I make OK money, but I know I could go out and make more if I went back to the private sector, but I also know that I would be sacrificing personal time and peace of mind - which is really more important.</p>
<p>You can’t put a price tag on a good quality of life.</p>
<p>BigeastBeast if this were facebook I would “like” your post! But it’s not, so I’ll just say it: I really like your post!</p>
<p>Some people are perfectly happy with whatever kind of job they get. A job selling tools is a job. Some people would be thrilled to be able to get a job like that, and they would take great pride in getting to have that job. Plus, some people just love tools and helping people find what they need for whatever projects they’re working on. A real estate agent might find someone their dream home. They’re finding homes that couples might start families in and that kids might grown in until they’re off to college. I can definitely see why someone would take pride in that </p>
<p>It doesn’t matter how worthless or pointless you might think a job is. At the end of the day, if you can call it a job well done and take home money to support yourself and your family, then plenty of people are going to be proud of that! ~ October47</p>
<hr>
<p>That’s right. </p>
<p>The best thing you can do for the world is to just raise good kids that go on to become productive members of society.</p>
<p>If everyone did that, we wouldn’t need super-uber intelligent college student/wannabe entrepreneurs like Pandem to save it for us with his passion.</p>
<p>Sorry for the delay, I signed off before the last reply last night.</p>
<p>@post #36:
</li>
<li><p>Eh? I’m saying that his business model is not applicable when extended to a broader segment of the population for basically the same reason pyramid schemes don’t make those who play rich.</p></li>
<li><p>Okay, we’re talking about a situation with two choices: job vs. self-employment. You’re saying that some people can’t get jobs that are worth anything at all in terms of skills developed. If they aren’t employable, why should we expect them to survive as self-employed? What service can they sell?</p></li>
<li><p>Earning one’s living solely through blogging is the epitome of a scalable career. Most people make next to nothing while a small number do very well. I’ll grant that the startup costs are small, so this might be a worthwhile chance to take while developing one’s potential in another way - for example, I could see this as a good move for a student.</p></li>
<li><p>Why is the Constitution a perfect bar for freedom? Are you familiar with the three-fifths compromise?</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Anyway, I’m not saying that freedoms are not important. They definitely are. However, the idea that a job is inherently bad because it may offer a quantitatively smaller amount of freedom in your activities does not make sense to me at all.
Ignoring the overload of value judgments in this post, I can’t think of a situation in which passion is restricted to self-employment. If the entrepreneur is passionate about what they do, why wouldn’t they retain that passion in an employed setting?</p>
<p>By the way, are you familiar with the history of the Manhattan Project? Any of the National Laboratories? NASA? Academic research? Warren Buffett? Intel? Ted Turner? I’ll give you a hint: even successful entrepreneurs usually worked (often for a lengthy period of time) at a normal job before leaping out on their own. And the world is mostly changed by the efforts of employees.</p>
<p>For the love of God, everyone makes this into an “us vs them” argument. Some of you need to learn how to get the gist of an argument and not nitpick irrelevant details. Sorry Noimagination, but this isn’t a college philosophy course. You don’t get bonus points for taking every minor statement and criticising it. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Have you run a website? Do you know anything about SEO? Did you not look at the website I provided before? NomadicMatt.com. Yes, most people don’t make money from it. Yes, most people don’t make money from businesses. Both can largely be blamed on poor management. Look at most blogs out there – they’re poorly designed, poorly marketed, poorly written, poorly optimized for SEO. Nothing’s guaranteed – but most people don’t know what they’re doing.</p></li>
<li><p>Because the skills to run a company aren’t the same as those working for someone? Are you really that dense?</p></li>
<li><p>Then I guess we should all sell our souls to corporations. After all, according to you, we have to justify the ability to work for ourselves.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Obviously passion isn’t limited to running your own company, but for a large portion of the workforce, a job is just a way to pay the bills. Most people don’t really enjoy their work; just look at BigEastBeast.</p>
<p>People should try to make a difference and be passionate about their jobs, whether that’s through starting their own company or working for someone else with more resources. Giving up and saying “Oh, I’ll just get a good-paying job that pays the bills. That’s good enough for me.” and passing the buck onto kids doesn’t accomplish anything. </p>
<p>And BigEastBeast, nonprofits are a huge deal. I don’t know why you think nonprofits are
niche organizations. Even if they were, how does that matter? They’re the same exact thing as any other business venture - except most are for a good cause. </p>
<p>1,100,000 sure isn’t a niche market.
[NCCS</a> - Number of Nonprofit Organizations in the United States 1998 - 2008](<a href=“http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/PubApps/profile1.php]NCCS”>http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/PubApps/profile1.php)</p>
<p>Also, and don’t interpret this the wrong way, but go look up the benefits of failure - more specifically why failing helps one to succeed. Virtually every successful person on the planet says the same thing. Avoiding risk for the sake of avoiding risk never got anyone further than mediocrity. Obviously one shouldn’t go bankrupt to start a venture, but writing it off because “it may lead to that” doesn’t lead anywhere.</p>
<p>I’m done arguing about it. If you only work in order to pay the bills, I truly pity you. Especially if you’re paying for luxuries like cars and electronics - as if consumer goods are somehow “required” to function in society. I just love how middle class people (in general) moan about not having enough money for college/business/travel yet live in nice houses and buy nice things. Instead of buying that new car or new cell phone, maybe the money would be better towards building something important?</p>
<p>
The details are not irrelevant. It isn’t my fault if your argument has logical gaps. I’m a debater - I come on forums like this because I enjoy argument. I’m glad that you are here too because it gives me an opportunity to do this.
I stand by everything I said, but I don’t think this is really an important component of the overall debate so I’m willing to drop it.
This is exactly what I was criticizing. Look, I agree that the management skills will differ, although if you plan on employing anyone in your new business it might be a good idea to know their perspective. However, presumably an entrepreneur will actually have some sort of value, content, or skills to build their business on. There has to be a reason for someone to hire you / click on your web page / buy your product. That’s what you can develop as an employee.
I’m not going to argue the values involved here. Some people may like their job because it allows them to live a certain lifestyle, and I’m not going to judge them for that. For what it’s worth, I personally agree with you. However, passion is completely independent of self-employment. You seem to agree with that.
I agree that sometimes it is worth taking risks. And sometimes it isn’t. If you enjoy playing the lottery and hope to someday hit the jackpot, that’s your choice. That doesn’t mean that I have to endorse or support it as a plan for the future.</p>
<p>Most entrepreneurs do not take risks on the level of someone staking their future on a highly scalable career.
I think I basically addressed this above.</p>
<p>Of course many people work to pay bills- they have families to take care of!! There are people who are able to live out their dreams and do what it takes to succeed, but there are also people who decide to go down another path and have responsibilities other than work to take care of.</p>
<p>Because the skills to run a company aren’t the same as those working for someone? Are you really that dense?</p>
<p>The skills required to run a business are certainly learned from working in a business world. Success isn’t learned from textbooks. </p>
<p>Do you really think you’re going to step out into the world and create a product so great that you’re going to absolutely be the only one in charge of it? You have to really know how to work with people and you have to understand how the business world works. You have to understand your employers and really understand customer service. If you think you can just jump into this people are going to run you over before you see what’s coming. </p>
<p>You have to have experience, and you have to really know what you’re getting into. It’s a cold, hard, world out there, and people don’t like people who think their lifestyle is better than others or who think their work is more valuable than others. People don’t like people who think they can just jump to the top before getting their hands dirty.</p>
<p>Obviously passion isn’t limited to running your own company, but for a large portion of the workforce, a job is just a way to pay the bills. Most people don’t really enjoy their work; just look at BigEastBeast. ~ Pandem</p>
<hr>
<p>I’m not sure why you always harp on that. There are several posts where I say how happy I am and how my job allows me to have a happy life.</p>
<p>In post #53 I say just that. In fact, I said that my previous jobs (one that dealt with a subject I really liked) made me miserable, but the job I have no makes me very happy.</p>
<p>So how about you drop the attempts to paint me as some grumpy, miserable person. Because you’re just lying to make yourself look good, and it shows.</p>
<p>I would honestly love to live in a log cabin (not a fancy one…I mean one that my family, friends, and I could build) somewhere in Montana or Wyoming, overlooking the mountains and perhaps a river or lake. Somewhere far, far away from people and civilization.</p>
<p>Sadly though, I’ve given in and will be going to an urban college to study chemE. I guess I’ll just have to do a lot of camping trips…</p>
<p>I never seriously considered not going to college, though…</p>