Dial back on the snark please.
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Why would high school students be permitted to participate in athletics but these NCAA athletes canât?
If they knew there would not have been a season, would they have taken a leave of absence?
I donât have a dog in this fight, but I can definitely see the challenge in asking students to stay on campus and be safe (the genesis of the fall drama), not simply for themselves but also for their fellow students, and making one group of students -athletes- an exception to the rule.
High school students and college students face the same risks personally but create different risks for the other people in their community. High school students arenât residential⊠I suppose that if athletes wanted to stay in quarantine and attend classes remotely, having contact only with each, the school could have offered that.
I do know that in some places, one of the considerations has been the impact of a high number of cases on the local health care system and the ability of the school to quarantine sick students. No idea how/if that matters in this case but itâs a consideration that we have little insight into.
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This shows a complete lack of empathy - really not a necessary comment. What this âcureâ is doing to young peopleâs mental health is truly a tragedy. One that will have long-standing effects that we cannot yet even imagine.
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Iâm empathetic to the issues that athletes may face, but they are no more or less important than the rest of the community.
As the Doc points out, the potential for active transmission during outdoor sports is low, but these kids are not in isolation or pods. The potential for an outbreak among the players on the team is the issue. If weâre going to have an honest conversation about transmission, letâs agree that sex in college is still going onâŠpandemic be damned. Iâm not theorizingâŠathletes on Haverfordâs campus are having sex, attending gatherings, and at some risk for community spread. There are no parties at Drinker, but the idea kids are living in a monastery is wrong.
We can all disagree. I can think itâs a good decision, others do not.
Keep in mind that Swat doesnât have half of their kids on campus. They probably couldnât field teams right now. Haverford (IMO) took everyone back on campus for the housing money. I thought the fall was a mistake, but they made it through fine. A bit of confirmation bias goes a long way when you have a personal interest in seeing a specific outcome.
What I find upsetting is the OP taking to multiple places on CC to trash the decision and attempt to damage the school. SkiEurope shut it down immediately, but the action suggests someone here is looking to damage the school. The post here included hints at racism and bullyingâŠwhich honestly felt a bit weak. Iâm merely attempting to present an alternative view. When I do so, the OP suggests Iâm an insiderâŠand employee. Iâm notâŠjust a parent who wants to see his kid and the others get through the storm and make it out the other side safely.
Yes, mental health is an issue, but the same holds true for everyone else who canât do the things they assumed when they went to campus.
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I didnât think anyone was expecting to compete this year. Fall outdoor sports were canceled too. One of my daughterâs best friends is a varsity athlete and she wasnât surprised in the least- but she went back to campus for more than sports. Iâm sorry your family felt ambushed by the decision though, that must have made it much harder to accept. I think it would be more surprising if Haverford had broken from the tri-co decision.
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Omg is this the school I read the article about that actually spray painted social distancing circles on their lawn ? That is imprinting an unhealthy message of utter fear/doom on that community. Life is neither fair nor completely safe. No wonder mental health professionals are in high demand !
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I donât think anyone who is considering going to Haverford should if they have other good options and care about their sport. Neither does my child. If she could go back in time, she would. If not being blindly loyal to whatever decision the administration made is âtrashing the schoolâ, so be it.
Haverford purports to allow students to govern themselves. They had no input in this decision. Many also, stupidly or not, thought that the school was making arrangements for a safe athletic experience.
The thread immediately prior to this was a Haverford student who felt bullied, so I didnât exactly pull that out of the air. Iâm not going to give examples but I assure you, this is not an imaginary or uncommon problem, though probably not unique to Haverford. Many of us have felt the wrath of the âcircular firing squadâ.
I didnât feel personally rebuked by the moderator. I meant to post this originally on the Athletic Recruitment Board, and to have it in only one place makes sense. But my comments were meant to alert serious athletic recruits to a situation that hasnât been widely publicized and they have a right to know.
Who is to say that President Raymond wonât decide Fall sports are too risky? Or if Covid comes back next winter, sports next spring? Sheâs never made clear exactly what criteria she is using.
The CDC defines a ârisky contactâ as more than 20 minutes of unmasked close contact. They specifically state that sports can be played. Iâm on the side of the science and public health data.
And yes, they did spray paint 6 foot circles on the grassâŠ
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That got me to wonderingâŠwhere would your child have been able to combine a similar education (highly rated LAC per US News) and sports this spring? In the top 20, there are really 2 types of schools.
D1 sports - Army, Navy and Colgate
Go South - Washington & Lee, Davidson
The reality for athletes who picked Haverford, most of the other schools they were looking at likely arenât playing spring sports either. Vent all you want, but Haverfordâs peer schools in the Northeast are not playing sports this spring.
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I appreciate hearing this oldbates. Especially about the lack of communication.
My child is talking with a coach at Haverford and has been watching the cancellations keenly. Itâs absolutely affecting how she views schools and not a positive light. High academics and sports are both important. Having a school that values both is also important. How could it not be? Sheâs been competing both academically and athletically at high level for years. The argument that there are no professional athletics for these kids and you can just work out belies the time and dedication put into their sport.
Honestly the undercurrent I get is some sense of superiority that the âsmartâ schools like the NESCACs and these CC schools know better. We find it obnoxious.
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Pm me any time.Hugs to you and your DD
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There is always going to be someone put into that box of their thing isnât important enough in the big picture. My daughter practiced her sport for 25+ hours a week all through high school. Sheâs a club athlete but was absolutely dedicated to her sport and is very upset that she cannot practice at all this semester due to practice being at an off-campus facility. It isnât for lack of dedication- in fact, last year she paid her own money to practice and compete on her own, because the school doesnât participate in competition for her sport at all. She has moved mountains to continue through a bunch of crap, but sheâs sitting this year out. It breaks her heart a little⊠but⊠sheâs trying to keep perspective about it. Itâs not hindering her future and itâs a health crisis in this country. Everyone is losing experiences.
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Totally agree. The high schools in our area of the Northeast all are playing winter and spring sports. Protocols are being followed and it is a little weird to see basketball players with masks on but they absolutely want to play. Itâs crazy to think that a college canât follow the same pattern. To those that were never varsity athletes in college themselves, you just canât understand totally how important it is to their overall development. Play Ball!
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There is a lack of leadership and forward thinking as well as poor communication.
President Raymond didnât even tell her own AD in advance of her decision, and there still hasnât been any kind of notice to those paying the $50,000+ price tag-the parents.
Your statement that my daughter shouldnât be upset because if she went to another âtop schoolâ she wouldnât be playing is another false equivalency. She could be attending Hopkins, right in her own conference. Isnât that a top school? The NESCACs havenât announced yet, and frankly, their problem is distance. No one wants to drive to Hamilton. You can bet no matter what, Bates, Bowdoin and Colby will play. The Centennial Conference has the advantage of proximity and no lengthy or overnight travel is needed. I think that distance was behind the Ivy League decision as well. The Liberty Conference is playing, and there are many other positive examples.
If President Raymond was showing leadership, she would have made a pro-active announcement, like âWe arenât going to play in the conference, but we will allow play between nearby colleges under the following circumstances:âŠâ Right now, the entire team, in their bubble, tested for COVID every week, isnât even all allowed on their own field at once. In fact, teams are split up in the field house-not allowed to practice or do drills together, but partial members of other teams are in there! So the numbers arenât lower, itâs just the team canât be together! This is irrational nonsense!
She doesnât care about athletes or athletics, or understand the participants!
I know I keep hammering this, but it is the point:
The CDC has also been tracking anxiety, depression, substance abuse and suicide in this age cohort. Unfortunately, this epidemic of serious mental health problems is as significant as COVID related illness. In July, the PULSE study demonstrated that 74.9% of respondents ages 19-24 had a serious mental health symptom, 24.7 % reported initiating or escalating substance abuse to cope, and a horrifying 25.6 % had contemplated suicide. This is a serious concern that should be at least as important to the administration as COVID prevention itself. Sports participation minimizes stress, social isolation, substance abuse and gives a healthy alternative to other, less functional coping strategy.
President Raymond doesnât get that she needs to understand what sports mean to a significant proportion of her student body, and thatâs why athletes should look elsewhere.
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The NESCACs appear to be approaching this situation jointly:
[quote]"The 11 presidents of NESCAC colleges and universities . . . said in a joint statement Wednesday that spring sports conference competitions will not take place unless the national and regional COVID-19 situations greatly improve.
ââAfter a careful review, the NESCAC presidents have agreed that conditions will need to improve significantly in order to conduct conference competition this spring,â the presidents wrote.â[/quote]
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That article is 6 weeks old. My Dâs coach has said they are likely to be able to play local schools this spring (both in and out of conference), but nothing is final yet. It does seem unlikely there will be an official NESCAC spring season, which would be the second season that some spring athletes miss.
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The NESCACs already maintain East (Bates, Bowdoin, Colby, Trinity, Tufts) and West (Amherst, Hamilton, Middlebury, Wesleyan, Williams) divisions for some sports. If travel remains a primary concern, it seems the conference could extend this structure (with the addition of CC) to all teams.
I hear you, but I just donât see Colby and Trinity teams making that 4 hour drive. We should know the plan in the next several weeks.
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Not just HSs still playing. So are Little Leagues and AAU travel teams. This âfollow the scienceâ thing has clearly run off the rails and science is not leading decisions. Crazy. If Power 5 football teams and most D1 basketball conferences could safely play with interruptions when necessary, why wouldnât ANY field hockey or baseball or X team be able to do this safely? Ridiculous!
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This is a disaster for all the athletes and a totally tone-deaf dictatorial move by President Wendy Raymond. There was no warning in January that this might happen, so most athletes trustingly came back to campus
Iâm sorry parents are so disappointed and I feel badly for the athletes, but Iâm not sure why this was a surprise. In August the Centennial Conference canceled fall sports through the end of December. In early December the college announced that the Conference canceled fall and winter sports championships for spring and they expected the Conference would make a decision about spring sports in January. In early February the Conference said they were still in discussions. When students returned to campus in February there was no indication that spring sports would be approved. In fact, all signs pointed to the opposite.
It wasnât until early March that the Conference announced they would allow spring sports as long as appropriate safety measures could be taken, but noted that because colleges have different facilities and resources the decision to participate would be up to the colleges. The Haverford Athletics Dept. announced the collegeâs decision on their website a short time later.
I donât believe college presidents are making these types of decisions on their own. They have to be approved by the Board of Trustees and pass the scrutiny of the legal team. So to accuse President Wendy Raymond of making a âdictatorial moveâ without proof that sheâs acting against the advice of the legal department and ignoring the wishes of the Board is unfair. Was it unfair not to have the Athletic Director on the committee that decided which groups could hold in person programs in the spring? I donât know. Were the Choir Director and Dance Director on the committee?
Students at some colleges are allowed to govern themselves to a certain extent, but I donât believe that extends to creating policies to deal with a worldwide pandemic. I know this is a difficult time I appreciate your data on the mental health of students during this crisis. You seem to believe that allowing sports will improve the mental health of the 40% of the student population that plays. Whatâs your solution for the other 60%? If 40% of the students are allowed to return to their major EC as if everything is back to normal, how will that impact the mental health of the 60% who arenât part of that elite group of students?
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