Thank you for all of the feedback. I know I have shortcomings, but still remain hopeful. I am male, and certainly hoping that I can find my best fit. Here I thought Penn State was the “party school.” I suppose it is what you make of it.
Epeemom, my son was deferred ED as well, and he was an Epee fencer so it sounds like our kids have something in common! He decided he didn’t want to be burdened with the intense practice schedule of the fencing team, though, so he didn’t join. I think the coach scared him when he told him he was going to put 20 pounds of muscle on him! LOL!
Although I mostly lurk, this is one thread to which I might be able to make a useful contribution. My daughter is considering Haverford and Lafayette (and 3 other LACs). She is interested in physics/mathematics and is a nationally ranked fencer. Her idea of fun is doing puzzles over coffee with friends; not partying or cheering for kids smashing into each other on some field or another. Some thoughts…
- Last Fall she spent a fill Mon/Tues sitting in on classes and overnighting with a fencer on S/M night. The result.... (drum roll) ... she felt she could be happy at both; no real distinction based on her visit (dad sighs...). She has also visited Haverford twice before and had great visits
- The Honor code at Haverford is very important to her
- No greek is important to her
- She actually likes a school not so different in size to her summer camp!
- There is a significant difference in SAT scores. Will those make a difference to the kids life long happiness and success? doubtful. But it may influence how upper level physics/math classes play out
- Fencing is currently better at Haverford. We really like Chris Spencer; Lafayette coach is new, so TBD.
- Both schools have a lot of STEM on campus
- At both schools graduate level classes are available at UPenn/Lehigh; but of course a logistical challenge
- Complicating.... daughter just got into Williams College with good financial aid last night....but no fencing
- Lafayette has merit aid (possibly their trump card; we'll see...)
- No interest in engineering; so can't comment
that’s our take right now…
Sounds like she’ll have a choice among three terrific schools @CoreyDad. Based on your description, Haverford sounds like the best fit for her, but you never know until all the cards (read: $$$$) are on the table and she weighs all her options. Good luck!
@megan12 Ahh, that is why your son is not in the North Dorms, he is not an athlete. Most of the athletes are housed in the same dorms, which seem to have a more than average amount of parties.
@CollegeLife2015 Megan12 is right, all colleges have their share of drinking and drugs, Haverford is no different. Also all colleges have some type of honor code, Haverford just talks about it more. My best advice is if you have any inkling you are going to want to pursue engineering, Haverford would probably not be your best choice. Most 4/1 and 3/2 programs are not recommended by engineers (look at the engineering boards here at CC). Haverford has no advisers for engineering, no internships, and no alumni engineers. (That I know of). My son was lucky enough to get an engineering internship because he is extremely outgoing and his best friends Dad is in the field. When he went for his interview, none of the interviewers had ever heard of Haverford, as most of the general public has not. They ALL asked him why he did not go to a school with an engineering program. After this internship son is going to decide if he really wants engineering. He may transfer over to pre-med for psychiatry which he has the math and most of the science for, though he may need one extra semester. If that is the way it plays out, Haverford will have been a good decision for him. (Grad schools do know and love Haverford). If you are set on engineering, do some serious investigating before deciding on a non engineering program. Good Luck!
@son2 - you’re on the money. Engineering education isn’t just about scientific theory. If it were, the sciences at Haverford plus the math would be fine. It is also most significantly about how to apply scientific principles to real physical systems – combination of elements – and exploring those relationships and calculating results, changing parameters, etc. Haverford, without an engineering program, doesn’t offer that. Without that background an ordinary science major would be completely lost. Even if the science major could get a job, the lack of background would become immediately apparent. Having a blank background in discussing problems isn’t a good idea. A 3-2 or 4-1 program is kind of a catch-up insofar as the engineering education is concerned and that would be extremely rigorous.
I was admitted to a 3-2 program back in the 1970s, single college, and it would have been great for me - but I didn’t want to be an engineer and then knew it. So I went to a regular 4-0 engineering school and graduated with honors - but never practiced. I took too many courses outside of engineering to have sufficient confidence - if I changed my mind, I would not be able to practice engineering without first getting a masters. Instead I got a law degree, and practice law. Engineering was kind of right for me, but for anyone to practice in the field that person really must focus in it - and really, nowadays serious employers are looking for a masters or a Ph.D.
Thank you all for taking the time to offer the invaluable insight! I will continue to gather info here, and on the engineering boards, prior to deciding. Any thoughts on Penn State?
Engineering at Penn State has a lot of giant classes/early weeding out, but for a kid smart enough to be admitted to Haverford, I’d think you’d excel there. It’s excellent for engineering and their career placement is outstanding, but you can’t get much more different in terms of college life than Penn State and Haverford. Lafayette could be the sweet spot in between . . . or not. Only you can say for sure.
DS accepted at Lafayette but without merit ( still surprised by that) Waiting for Haverford’s decision. At 60k for each of them Haverford will be his choice though it lacks an UG engineering degree. Wait listed at Caltech. Interesting times for sure.
Congratulations on your son’s acceptance into Lafayette College. I hope Haverford offers him admission as well!
@CollegeLife2015 - were you accepted at Lafayette? Best of luck with this crazy process!
As it turned out, I did not merit the financial assistance I needed to attend Lafayette College (my first choice). I am facing the prospect that Haverford and JHU will respond similarly. Still, nothing ventured nothing gained. At least I know that I tried. Thank you for your suggestions. I hope your son is offered admission into Haverford.
@megan12 - DS rejected by Brown today … Getting closer and closer to Haverford 
@EpeeMom, is your son still planning to pursue engineering? I hope if he goes the 4-1 route at Haverford you’ll come back and let families know about the program. I’ve yet to come across anyone who actually decided to go that route (I think last year was the first or second year they offered it), and I’m very curious. Best of luck to your son!
@LucieTheLakie - At this point I just don’t know. I think the Haverford Professor in charge of the program said there are a couple of students enrolled in the program, but it’s not easy (logistics, etc). I think that if he truly wants to pursue engineering, then the Caltech wait list and Stevens are his 2 best options. If he’s not sure, then Haverford or Brandeis. Stevens and Brandeis both offered some good merit money and we don’t qualify for FA. If my son decides to pursue either the 4+1 or 3/2 program I will report back.Thank you for the well wishes
@Epeemom - bummer about Brown. DS still wonders about the “one that got away.” LOL!
@Epeemom - The 4/1 with Penn has some really positive aspects, most notably an Ivy League Masters degree for $75K less than most (who would take 2 years vs. 1 after undergrad), and the ability to graduate with their class at Haverford (leaving for Senior year can be a tough decision).
Stevens and Brandeis are fine schools, but (if you / he can afford it) they aren’t Haverford / Penn. If grad school is in the plans, compare the cost of 2 years of grad school (versus 1) with the annual merit cash. If the merit money is $20k per year, the difference in cost to get a Masters is negligible.
@EyeVeee - Thank you; you’ve made some great points. I hadn’t thought about the cost savings on a 5 year Masters degree. I do feel that Haverford is in many ways, the best fit for him.
@LucieTheLake- I can tell you how the Haverford program is…awful. Going to Haverford for engineering is like going to art school to become a veterinarian, it is just not done.
@EyeVee- If you think there are some positive aspects with the Penn 4/1 program, don’t you think some people would be doing it? It is a marketing gimmick that is near impossible to achieve. Stevens for engineering far exceeds Haverford in every aspect, especially if the student actually wants to be an engineer and get a job in the engineering field. Ask any engineer you know about going to a school without an engineering program. They will laugh.
@son2hereagain, People are doing it, just not very many. There are millions of reasons for that, but I would guess the most popular one is that engineers tend to be painfully conservative and thrive within rules. Rule #1, you have to have an undergrad engineering degree from an engineering school to be an engineer. Students who (believe they) know what they want to be for the next 40 years, will take the standard path.
It is definitely risky, but someone getting through it will have an incredibly special Engineering Masters degree. The liberal arts exposure and the breadth of personalities encountered at a non-engineering school are very valuable experiences.
With only 1200 students at Haverford, the number of kids who eventually qualify is going to be very low. If you trust the program advisor, I’m sure they will do everything possible to make it work. Risky for sure…but a HUGE payoff potential.
By the way…decide you don’t want to be an engineer at Stevens, and you need to find another school. Not so at Haverford. Nothing worse than getting a degree in a field you don’t really enjoy, and then having to go to work for 40+ years because you made the safe choice at 18 years old.