<p>Hey,</p>
<p>I was just wondering - how bad is the hazing at berkeley's best frats (one's like SAE, Fiji, etc.) ?</p>
<p>And also, are there any popular frats that are considered top tier but at the same time who's members are interested in their studies too? I'm curious because I'd like to join a good frat but not at the expense of my grades.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Bumping it</p>
<p>Fraternities haze, especially the ‘top’ ones, but most people don’t know to what extent the hazing goes just because members aren’t really supposed to talk about it. So it’ll be hard for you to get much more than rumor-mill fodder.</p>
<p>Given that there are so many fraternities here at Berkeley, I’m sure you’ll find the right one that’s a mix of fun and studiousness… Don’t worry so much about who’s at the ‘top.’ It’s more important that you get along with the people in the house and that you like them, and have things in common with them.</p>
<p>Well thanks for the response. Though I would like to hear some rumors if that’s all there is because I just want to get an idea of to what extent hazing goes. I’d like to join a good fraternity mostly for the social aspect of it (good parties, good sororities at those parties, etc.) so I don’t want to commit much time or suffering to the frat if joining does require those things.</p>
<p>If your doing it to be in on the parties, you don’t HAVE to be in a frat. You can still make good friends from your floor and go out with them. I guess it can be hard sometimes for guys though to get in because a lot of frats discriminate, which personally, I think is stupid. But I mean that’s the way it works.</p>
<p>Who do they discriminate against, if you don’t mind me asking?</p>
<p>Guys and I don’t know if you count this as “discrimination” but people they don’t consider “pretty”. They don’t have the decency not to say it’s because of that either in front of the people they don’t let in. It’s disrespectful. They always let me in but I’ve seen them turn down people and yell why they can’t get in.</p>
<p>If you’re looking to join a fraternity, you should join for the brotherhood, not for the parties. That said, if you are a partier, you might just happen to mingle well with those chapters who party a lot.</p>
<p>This same logic applies to grades and academics. Based on your post, it’s clear that you find grades to be important, and if a chapter does anything that does not support your pursuit of good grades, do you really want to be a part of that organization?</p>
<p>Lastly, on hazing: give yourself some self respect. Brothers who should be there for you (and vice versa) shouldn’t be abusing you. Don’t allow it to happen.</p>
<p>EDIT: just noticed your post that said you don’t want to commit much time – that’s not going to go well for any fraternity. Fraternities are not something you just join; it’s something that you become. If you just want to party, there are plenty of co-op parties you can go to.</p>
<p>
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<p>I find this hard to believe, but I’m not surprised it happens. </p>
<p>It makes sense though.</p>
<p>@ knitknots - lol
@ excelblue - Well, my goal is to not rush for a frat that has some overly-intense/ridiculous hazing practices so that’s why I’m asking…I don’t want to be in a position where I will have to stop rushing because I find them overly abusive. As for the time commitment, I have no problem committing the time I would otherwise commit to partying and having fun to the frat, but I don’t want a frat that will consume my entire schedule, know whadda mean?</p>
<p>lol why is that hard to believe? Do you go to frats? (I’m not asking in a negative way)</p>
<p>The idea is that a fraternity will consume nearly your entire schedule. You’ll be studying with your brothers, and you will be looking forward to things you do with your brothers. It’s not about having fun for a couple of hours a week and then doing your own thing. Personally, there have been several weeks where I’ve chose to literally spend as much as 60hr for my fraternity.</p>
<p>A bit of hint: you can usually tell the overly abusive types based on your gut feeling just by looking at how they behave at recruitment events. It’s also always a good idea to bring up the question about hazing and ask about the expectation of pledges.</p>
<p>Furthermore, be careful about your usage of the word “frat,” it’s considering derogatory, and you might offend quite a few people unintentionally.</p>
<p>Hmm, thank you for the advice. Though one point I’m curious about is still the time commitment. You did say that you decided to put in 60 hours a week several times (by choice). However, I’ve heard from my friends (fraternity/sorority members) that it is very possible to avoid your brothers (or sisters) at times you need to study. Granted, I do obviously want to spend time with the people I am in a fraternity with. But given that I don’t want to spend all of my time with them, wouldn’t it be fair to say that I could get away from them for studying purposes?</p>
<p>He’s probably a better person to talk to but just in general, you don’t have to do anything you don’t want to. If you’re not living in the house, I’d imagine no one would care if you’re there are not unless they have mandatory meetings or something. But honestly, why would you want to pay money to clean up after parties, buy other people drinks every weekend, etc.?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Networking.</p>
<p>meh I think it’s still possible to have enough connections without that. There are always volunteer opportunities, internships, etc. unless you are talking about professional fraternities.</p>
<p>The money actually goes towards providing lots of things:</p>
<ul>
<li>Funding social events</li>
<li>Insurance (crazy parties are fun when the risk is managed)</li>
<li>Philanthropy</li>
<li>Programming / conferences (learning how to be a better person, networking)</li>
</ul>
<p>For the same amount of money, you just aren’t going to get the same as an independent.</p>
<p>In terms of getting alone-time to study: in most fraternities, this shouldn’t be an issue. It’s one thing to miss one meeting because you have two midterms the next day, but it’s quite another to miss one out of every three events, sometimes just because you don’t feel like it. Whatever you decide to do, the fraternity you decide to join (if you decide to join one) should respect your right to study. If you feel like you’re being forced to do things against your will and keep on having regrets, those are signs that you probably aren’t in an organization that’s right for you.</p>
<p>Ok, thanks excel.</p>
<p>Hazing is such a loaded and ugly word. As a greek member, I can say that hazing is pretty common in fraternities, especially the top ones. You’re going to hear so many rumors about hazing - you’ll hear the one about goats soon enough. You’re not going to get beat up or anything like that, but some of it can be pretty absurd and can make for some interesting stories. It’s all about what you’re comfortable with, and sometimes pushing those boundaries.</p>
<p>There are so many different houses on campus so it’s incredibly hard to generalize, and I regret not checking out as many houses as I’d like. I joined a fraternity thats known to be a bit more mellow in the hazing side, but looking back, it’s weird to say that I would have rather joined a “better” one with more hazing. </p>
<p>Anyways, I do really recommend anybody joining a fraternity/sorority. You’ll find out soon that greek life really is a lot more than parties and alcohol, although those sure can be fun.</p>
<p>And deep down, we’re all nerds here at Cal. They will understand when you need to study for your midterm, but you will need to quickly learn how to manage your time really really well.</p>
<p>Pledging: “The most fun you’ll never want to have again in your life”</p>
<p>bbb360 does not have a strong understanding of what a fraternity is about, I highly recommend that you ignore most of what he/she has said. Yes, we regulate who comes to our parties because we try to keep sketchy guys who might break our stuff out, and keep a good ratio of girls:guys so the party is enjoyable. No, all the money does not go to other peoples drinks, we have exchanges with sororities, brotherhood events, regional conventions etc. I agree with what spydimag posted. You can be in a fraternity as well as party, whilst still getting good grades, many of our brothers have 3.5+ GPAs in hard majors, including myself.</p>