One of my daughters has friends whose parents kicked them out when they hit 18, saying “You are no longer my responsibility.” Good kids, with no money or encouragement from parents, working in fast food restaurants for the foreseeable future. Now that is one parenting style I might say contributes to depression.
I would rather get upset about kids whose support was minimal than over kids whose parents are supportive, though there are a few over the top exceptions for sure.
Compmom raises a good point. What’s the rate of depression among kids in foster care who get declared independent at age 18 with no parental/guardian support???
IT’S ALL YOUR FAULTS PARENTS!!! YOU HEAR THAT? EVERYTHING IS YOUR FAULT
(end sarcasm)
@compmom - I think it would only be inappropriate to cast issue with two-working-parents households if what you really mean is that women need to stay home and stop working. If all you’re advocating is that one parent of either gender should stay home (which is how I read your post) then there’s nothing even remotely wrong with saying that.
The phenomenon being discussed is not an example of the psychological state of learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is when someone is exposed to repeated averse stimuli and cannot avoid it, as hard as he/she tries to avoid it. Eventually, when the person doesn’t even try avoiding the adverse stimuli, that is learned helplessness.
signed,
former psych major who read and studied the book Learned Helplessness, by Martin Seligman
We also don’t know if the parents who “over parent” and who “do too much” are also more likely to be anxious/depressed (but manifesting their a/d differently), and therefore the kids are genetically-predisposed to a/d and it’s being displayed in a different manner.
I wanna, loved post #22.
I wasn’t thinking of political correctness with gender (even those house husband stories are fading in the media) but more the fact that people really need to work, so it is dicey saying anything negative about day care. It isn’t always a choice and government programs even require it.
I just saw a line of toddlers tied together with rope, going two by two down the sidewalk. I have no idea how they are feeling (it looks stressful, but maybe they are having fun) but it is a visible representation of the kind of regimentation prevalent in education today. No chance to stop and look at a leaf on the ground.
Chances are though, that that group of kids will suffer actual clinical depression with the same proportion as the general population, meaning, a small number will and a larger number won’t. Not as a result of parental choices.
It’s dicey saying anything about daycare because there is zero evidence that links quality early childcare and mental illness later in life.
not because of PC concerns. But because of zero evidence.
Only on CC. We love STEM for our kids- but don’t bother to use any analysis whatsoever when making big societal declarations. Why bother to seek evidence of correlation or causation when our “guts” tell us that hovering parents cause depression AND it fits nicely with our own worldview, somehow validating our own life choices???
A preschool teacher told me that ropes are used because children under age 4 can’t form a line to walk somewhere. Their minds aren’t ready for that yet. But they can hold on to a rope, which accomplishes the same thing.
My post was mainly in response to posts such as this:
Add in some bad experiences surrounding poor organizational skills or poor adaptation skills and you’ve got a kid saying, “I just can’t do this.”…“My mom isn’t here. She’s the one that’s supposed to be keeping me on track.” “Dad usually does this. I’m not getting it right.”…“I’ve been trying, but nothing is helping. I’m dumb.”
I will continue to believe learned helplessness applies, but you are free to disagree.
@Niquii77
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Imagine that you’ve always had someone “keeping you on track,” and “keeping you organized,” and “waking you up for class,” and “making your meals and washing your clothes,” and/or “cleaning up after you.”
Now, suddenly, you’re hours away from home, you’re sleeping thru classes, you can’t find your stuff, you’re making painful mistakes (forgot test/forgot assignment)…
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Add in some bad experiences surrounding poor organizational skills or poor adaptation skills and you’ve got a kid saying, “I just can’t do this.”…“My mom isn’t here. She’s the one that’s supposed to be keeping me on track.” “Dad usually does this. I’m not getting it right.”…“I’ve been trying, but nothing is helping. I’m dumb.”
I will continue to believe learned helplessness applies…
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I agree with you. I think learned helplessness does happen.
I think there’s much value in “adding in” new age-appropriate responsibilities/chores as each year passes.
I don’t like the idea of kids being coddled for years and then suddenly, “poof” they’re on their own and expected to handle whatever comes down the pike. Imagine accepting a job and your boss only lets you answer the phone, and this goes on for years. Then suddenly he says, “hey, now that you’ve been here for 18 years, I’m going on vacation for 10 months, so you’ll have to mind the store.” Yikes! Who wouldn’t have an anxiety attack?
Many mental disorders such as depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder tend to manifest in young adults in the 20’s and early 30’s. It is a combination of genetics, biochemical, neurological, environmental factors. Going away to college is a major stressor that may push some over the edge and causes biochemical changes. Because of all of these factors, parents or even helicopter parents should not be blamed as causing depression, etc. There is usually a genetic predisposition for many of these mental illnesses.
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Going away to college is a major stressor that may push some over the edge and causes biochemical changes. Because of all of these factors, parents or even helicopter parents should not be blamed as causing depression, etc. There is usually a genetic predisposition for many of these mental illnesses.
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“Causing” is a strong term.
However, as you note, going away to college is a major stressor. If someone were predisposed, and had developed many life-skills and orgn skills while growing up, it could be argued that they might be less likely to be “pushed over the edge” once they went away to college.
With regards to the discussion on helplessness, at one of my college tours the guide mentioned that out of the incoming freshman, usually only about 20% had ever cleaned a toilet.
I don’t see the point. My kids lived in dorms with hall bathrooms. They weren’t cleaning their toilets anyway. Not every student lives in an apt. And anyway what idiot can’t figure out how to spray cleanser on a bowl and wipe? It’s of no consequence IMO if they grew up doing that or learned it two days before leaving for college.
Darn those Machiavellian cookie-baking parents!
I think this article is evidence that we are calling a lot of different things depression and they are not the same. Some of them did not used to be labeled as mental illness and probably should still not be today. Real depression is not something to be taken lightly and is certainly not caused by suddenly having to get yourself up in the morning or having to clean a toilet. If you have ever dealt with someone with real depression you would know it doesn’t seem to be caused by anything which is why it is so hard to treat and cure.
Learned helplessness- I did not know how to do my own laundry before I went to college. I think I turned out just fine. I graduated from college, have a family, have had a career for more than 20 years. Most of my friends and peers pay someone to do their laundry. I still do mine. Not having done something before and being helpless are not the same thing.
No, not having done something before and being helpless are not the same thing. If you believe that’s what has been communicated, surely there has been a misunderstanding. There’s a thought process that comes along with learned helplessness, a thought process you didn’t go through considering you learned how to do your laundry and didn’t have considerable difficulties undertaking that responsibility.
@brantly 10 bonus points! That is exactly what the correct description and use of the term “learned helplessness” (coined by Marty Seligman who was at that time at StonyBrook) was all about. One of my professors in grad school (now former APA president) was a student of Seligman’s and had one of his research dogs. That poor thing was a nervous wreck! OK- now for the lightening round (and no peeking on google, wiki or wherever). What were Seligman’s follow-up research areas on optimism/resilience and happiness?
Sorry for the digression, but what brantly said is correctly what “learned helplessness” is. It’s not being unfamiliar with how to wash your socks.
I think it’s glib to pretend that depression etc would magically go away if hs kids were magically forced to do laundry.