Help a clueless parent.

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello.
My son is a junior this year so we are looking at colleges right now. My husband and I don't know much about colleges in the United States since we are from another country, so we are sort of unsure about the universities my son is looking at. He's been doing some reading on the internet and such to determine which colleges he likes best and he's come up with a list of 8 schools, which he might cut down later. Fortunately, paying for his school will not be too much of a financial problem, but the costs are daunting, nonetheless.</p>

<p>His preliminary college list includes Rice, University of Michigan, Michigan State, Case Western, Cornell, Duke, Brown, and Northwestern. He is iffy on whether he should apply to Duke and Northwestern. So far, we have visited Rice, U of M, and MSU and he has liked them all. </p>

<p>But I want to know if his list is balanced or too ambitious.
These are his basic "stats": 35 ACT, 4 GPA, currently first in class, has and is taking AP classes. His extracurriculars are Science Olympiad, amnesty international, drug abuse counseling, volunteering at the local library and hospital, a translation and research job, science research, tutoring, black belt in karate, archery, National Honors Society, and an astronomy club. He has won some karate competitions, math competitions, and is a National Merit commended scholar.</p>

<p>I tried to include as much as possible. We are really clueless about the entire college search thing and I need some help. </p>

<p>Thank you very much! :-)</p>

<p>Edit: Also, we live in Michigan, are Middle-eastern/white, and my son is considering doing pre-med and a math major.</p>

2

<p>I certainly wouldn’t cut down on the list and would probably expand it.</p>

<p>First question – would you be considered as US students or International Students. The admissions criteria are often different. I honestly don’t know how this works, but you should find out.</p>

<p>Next – good news/bad news. Good news, with your son’s stats, he can consider any school as being realistic. Bad news, the really top schools are reaches for anyone.</p>

<p>What most do in this country is list their schools in three categories. “Reach”, “Match” and “Safety”</p>

<p>Roughly speaking a ‘reach’ is a school that you might get into but think less than 50-50. A ‘match’ is a school where your statistics match up with well, but it’s not assured, and a safety is a school that you’d be surprised if you didn’t get into.</p>

<p>Using this criteria, as I stated before, most of the schools on your list are reaches for ANYONE. Meaning they admit far less than 20% of their applicants. Many students are rejected with perfect scores and grades every year, and almost no one is assured a slot.</p>

<p>Looking at your list, I’d come up with the following:</p>

<p>Rice, REACH
University of Michigan MATCH
Michigan State SAFETY
Case Western MATCH,
Cornell REACH,
Duke REACH
Brown REACH,
Northwestern REACH</p>

<p>Note – with your son’s stats, he could get into any or all of his reaches – just these schools are impossible to predict.</p>

<p>I would recommend a couple of additional Match schools, and maybe one more safety.</p>

<p>Rochester, Carnegie Mellon, Lehigh, come to mind as matches – excellent schools, but a bit easier to get into than the others on the list.</p>

<p>Northeastern, maybe as a Safety school – I hear that they’re good on merit scholarship mone too.</p>

3

<p>One place where you can find out more about how the process works is [EducationUSA</a> | Study Abroad, Student Visa, University Fairs, College Applications and Study in the U.S. / America](<a href=“http://educationusa.state.gov/]EducationUSA”>http://educationusa.state.gov/) The website is designed to provide information for international applicants and their families, so not all of the information will apply in your specific case.</p>

<p>Your son’s guidance counselor will be able to tell him whether U of MI and MSU are dead-on safety schools or not. If they aren’t, he may want to look around a bit more until he finds a clear admissions safety that he really likes.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>

4

<p>I agree with post #2 that 5 of the schools are reaches (Brown, Northwestern, etc) for almost everyone who applies. I’ve included some data on students denied admissions at Brown so that you can see that for yourself. Admission to those shcools is very hard to predict.</p>

<p>36 on ACT: Brown admitted 28% and said “no” to 72%
33-35 on ACT: Brown admitted 11% and said “no” to 89%
Top 10% of class: 10% admitted, 90% denied
Valedictorians: 19% admitted , 81% denied </p>

<p>No harm on being ambitious and trying for schools that are reaches as long as your child also applies to schools where you can be relatively sure your child will be admitted.</p>

<p>Some high schools use software called “Naviance” which has historical records of students with specific statistics and whether they were admitted or not to different schools. Your kid’s high school guidance counselor may be using that or may have other ways of determining likely outcomes for your child.</p>

<p>Good luck!!!</p>

5

<p>* So far, we have visited Rice, U of M, and MSU and he has liked them all. *</p>

<p>Well if he likes UM and MSU and you’re willing to pay the costs, then those can be his safeties. </p>

<p>If you want/need financial aid or merit scholarships, then have him apply to a couple of schools that give assured merit for stats.</p>

<p>Is your son a citizen or green-card holder? </p>

<p>If you want need-based aid, then do the net price calculators on schools like Rice to see if privates are affordable.</p>

<p>You need more match schools and maybe a financial safety or two.</p>

6

<p>If paying for college is not too much of a financial problem, then I suspect you are more likely looking at full pay or merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Assuming your son maintains his GPA, MSU is a sure thing. If he gets his application in early, he will have his acceptance in early October. U-M will respond in mid-December and while never a slam dunk, I would be very surprised if he were not accepted there.</p>

<p>MSU has a scholarship program for very strong academically qualified candidates - I think it is called ADR and it gives either a full ride or free tuition. U-M sometimes offers merit scholarhships but usually less generous.</p>

<p>As such, I think your son should look for schools that either (i) he likes better than U-M, or (ii) provides opportunities for merit scholarships that reduce cost below full pay U-M instate. With a 35/4.0 there will be opportunities for merit aid but not usually at schools like Brown, Cornell or Duke.</p>

<p>Keep in mind the cost of medical school/graduate school.</p>

7

<p>Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>Sorry for the misunderstanding, but we are US citizens. It’s just that
we were educated in our home country before escaping here to the US.</p>

<p>res ipsa, you are right in assuming that we will receive little to no financial aid. We’re in that income region where we cannot get need-based aid but where $200k+ for college is still a great deal. When we visited MSU, we were told that my son would be invited for the ADS as long as he applies early. </p>

<p>mom2collegekids, what do you mean by “financial safety”? Do you mean a full ride/full tuition or just something that is affordable? We have enough saved up to pay up to about $30k/yr for college. Of course, since medical school is what he’s looking towards in the future, it would be best we save as much as possible.</p>

<p>happymomof1, my husband and I had a meeting with our son’s guidance counselor (it’s required by the school to ensure that kids know what they’re doing). She said that my son would definitely get into MSU and U of M, based on her experience. The high school my son goes to is sort of a feeder school to both these colleges, sending about 90 kids to each. But I’m not sure whether U of M could be considered a “safety” or not. She also said that she would expect him to get some scholarships at Case, which is apparently very good with merit aid. </p>

<p>zephyr, we’ll look into Carnegie Mellon.</p>

<p>What do you guys think about University of Pittsburgh as a safety? Do you think he would receive scholarships from there? My son has some interest in the school.</p>

<p>Thanks once again!</p>

8

<p>A safety meets these four criteria:</p>

<p>1) You are certain that your child will be admitted. You know this because the grades and test scores required for admission are posted right on the website (some public universities do post this information for in-state applicants) and/or your child’s HS has years of records that clearly indicate that every student with your child’s profile who applied there has been admitted. This is the “academic safety” part.</p>

<p>2) Your family can pay for the college/university without any aid other than Federally determined (FAFSA) aid and/or guaranteed state aid and/or guaranteed merit-based aid from the college/university itself. This is the “financial safety” part.</p>

<p>3) Your child’s major is offered. </p>

<p>4) Your child will be happy to attend. This is the “Love thy safety” part.</p>

<p>Since the guidance counselor has already told you that your son can expect to be admitted at MSU and U of MI, they are within your budget, and your son likes them, then you have at least one solid safety and one pretty-safe option on your list. He should apply to both of them early next fall so that he can get in line for any goodies they offer such as early cut-off dates for merit-based scholarships, priority for housing, priority for class registration, etc. He also might like to take a look at some of the threads here that discuss merit-based scholarships. One good one is <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html&lt;/a&gt; Some scholarships have early cut-off dates for the specific scholarship itself, or for the college/university application. I believe that the big money at U Pitt is like that, so do check the website.</p>

9

<p>mom2collegekids, what do you mean by “financial safety”? Do you mean a full ride/full tuition or just something that is affordable? We have enough saved up to pay up to about $30k/yr for college. Of course, since medical school is what he’s looking towards in the future, it would be best we save as much as possible.</p>

<p>Adding to Happymom’s excellent post…</p>

<p>In your case (since you can afford most/all schools), a financial safety for your son would be a school that offered you some merit (maybe half or full tuition or more) that would allow you to put more college funds towards med school.</p>

<p>And, yes, he’d have to like it.</p>

<p>UPitt may give your son merit. Their merit isn’t predictable, but could be likely. There are also schools that give ASSURED merit.</p>

<p>(and I’m glad that you were able to safely escape from your country and come here. :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>* We have enough saved up to pay up to about $30k/yr for college. Of course, since medical school is what he’s looking towards in the future, it would be best we save as much as possible.*</p>

<p>It doesn’t sound like you’d qualify for need-based aid. So along with the $30k per year in savings, how much would you contribute out of current income?</p>

10

<p>To add to what others have stated, Case Western will offer Merit $, the Reach schools on your list will be more limited on scholarship $ since they have few scholarships offered and more $ for financial aid (that it sounds like you would not qualify for) so I would check on each schools website and play around with their Cost of Attendance calculator and see what your actual costs might be. </p>

<p>I am not suggesting that your son not apply to those reach schools, you just need to be aware of the possible out of pocket costs of these schools should your son be accepted. You will see hundreds of posts here on CC of students admitted to their #1 Reach/Dream school and they can not afford to attend because they did not have a realist idea of the costs.</p>

11

<p>If the GC is right, and UM is a safety school, then the combination of Quality of School + in-state tuition will be hard to beat without a major scholarship. It’s a great school and a true bargain for in-state.</p>

12

<p>I’d definitely add U Pittsburgh and U Rochester as considerations. Just don’t fall in love with any one school until you see where the finances are. Granted, you can pay a bit, but saving for med school ought to factor in as well. The private schools can be unpredictable, but on the other hand, they can be quite rewarding too. (Pitt is a PA State-related school, more private than public, but a mix of both. U Rochester is private and has 80% of undergrads involved in research if that appeals to your guy. It’s what attracted my guy - and the finances kept him there for fall 2016).</p>

13

<p>At $30,000 per year, it is likely that in-state publics (e.g. Michigan, Michigan State) will have list prices within that range. Some out-of-state public universities (e.g. Minnesota, Stony Brook, NCSU, UMass, Iowa State) may also fall within that range at list price. These may be worth considering to see if they can be safety or lower match schools.</p>

<p>Note: Michigan considers “level of interest” in admissions. This means that assuming that it can be a safety is risky.</p>

<p>To check financial aid, try the “net price calculator” on each school’s web site.</p>

<p>Some super-selective schools like Harvard and Stanford are more generous with need-based financial aid than most schools, but they are obviously a reach for everyone (though #1, 4.0 GPA, 35 ACT does have a better chance than lower rank/GPA/test-score applicants).</p>

14

<p>I know of people who have received need based aid to Pittsburgh so I would consider that if your son has interest.</p>

<p>At 30K per year, U-M and MSU fit in your budget.</p>

<p>If your son has an interest in Kalamazoo, it is likely that they would give merit aid to be competitive with U-M/MSU.</p>

15

<p>Hello once again everyone. I really can’t show how much I appreciate your guys’ consideration and help.</p>

<p>I’ll make sure my son applies early to all his schools then. He usually isn’t a procrastinator, doing his work and then relaxing afterwards.</p>

<p>res ipsa, our son did have an interest in K college, but, when we visited, he felt it wasn’t right for him. He’s not really a fan of LACs in general.</p>

<p>happymomof1, thank you for that link. Of the schools offering automatic merit aid, The University of Alabama was his top choice. He might apply but we don’t know too much about it right now.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids, we would be willing to pay as much as possible. For colleges like Cornell, that would be $50k to $60k a year, we would do our best to make it work. This would, however, prevent us from giving any money for his goals after college, whether medical school or graduate school. We also have a daughter who is two years younger than our son, so we have to definitely keep her in mind. </p>

<p>He’s pretty sure about going to medical school, though realizing that it will be tough to get in, and paying too much for undergrad may make his choices for grad school limited. Fortunately, my son is taking money into consideration and he doesn’t really have a “dream college.” He likes most all of his colleges equally and would be happy to go to any of them, whether its U of M, MSU, or even one of the reach schools (if he gets in, of course).</p>

<p>zephyr15, I agree but my son is sort of scared of going to such a large college. That’s why we’re looking at smaller schools out-of-state and schools that can counter their large undergrad population through honors and residential colleges (like MSU’s Lyman Briggs and Honors College). If he gets into the Honors College at U of M, that probably would be at the top of his list then b/c it would be the perfect intersection of his fit line with our finance line. </p>

<p>ucbalumnus, my son’s not really interested in the “super-selective schools” you named. His list isn’t situated on prestige, but rather how much he likes the school and the cost of the school. My son’s not the type who thinks that one should go to an Ivy league school no matter what. He likes all the schools on his list equally, but maybe not as much for Duke and Northwestern. I think Rice and Brown are at the top of his list, followed very closely by the others. He’ll make sure to show interest to U of M in his essays.</p>

<p>Bluepoodle, I’ve heard Case gives good merit aid so hopefully my son will get some. </p>

<p>Creekland, my son is liking Rochester too and I’ve heard that they give out good merit aid too. Research is pretty important to him.</p>

<p>I’ve looked at the financial aid calculators and my assumptions were correct: little to no financial aid. </p>

<p>He’s sure of adding Pittsburgh and Rochester onto his list. Alabama might be on his list because of the automatic scholarship and it being a good safety school–we just need more info on it. A friend of mine recommended us to look at Boston University. What do you think about that college?</p>

<p>If and when we have time, we’ll visit some of the other colleges on his list and narrow it down. </p>

<p>How many schools do you think he should apply to? He wants his list to be 8 schools or lower (he says preferably 6) and having 11 or 12 schools might be overkill. Most people at my son’s high school in the top 10% of their class usually apply to 15 though, according to the high school.</p>

<p>Once again thank you all for your help.</p>

16

<p>

</p>

<p>The reason for mentioning was not prestige (though it can be a side effect if he gets in; some also have high grade inflation that is helpful for pre-meds), but because of their stated financial aid generosity (which gives significant need-based financial aid to significantly higher family income levels than most schools do). Try the net price calculators.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>First, find the safeties. Make sure that they really are safeties – assured admission, assured affordability, and desirable to him.</p>

<p>Then he can add any number of other schools that he finds may be more desirable than the safeties. (There are some students for whom this list will be empty if their favorite school is a safety for them.)</p>

17

<p>How many he applies to really is up to him. My nephews only applied to Iowa State because it was affordable and offered their majors. They didn’t care at all to look anywhere else. My nieces dragged their families to visit many different places and applied to about ten chasing the best aid package. Happykid visited four, but only applied to two as a community college transfer applicant because she just couldn’t face any more essays.</p>

<p>Two in-state that are basically guaranteed admits, maybe one more (Alabama?) because of the guaranteed admit and aid, and then three or four more that offer the combination of aid and programs he’s looking for would give him a list of six or seven total. As long as he likes all of the places that he applies to well enough to attend, and all of them can be made affordable, it will be fine.</p>

18

<p>*mom2collegekids, we would be willing to pay as much as possible. For colleges like Cornell, that would be $50k to $60k a year, we would do our best to make it work. This would, however, prevent us from giving any money for his goals after college, whether medical school or graduate school. We also have a daughter who is two years younger than our son, so we have to definitely keep her in mind. </p>

<p>He’s pretty sure about going to medical school, though realizing that it will be tough to get in, and paying too much for undergrad may make his choices for grad school limited. Fortunately, my son is taking money into consideration and he doesn’t really have a “dream college.” He likes most all of his colleges equally and would be happy to go to any of them, whether its U of M, MSU, or even one of the reach schools (if he gets in, of course).*</p>

<p>Your son sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. As long as he goes to a “good college” and does well (GPA and MCAT and ECs), then med school can be in his future. My younger son opted to accept merit scholarships and will use college money for med school. He didn’t want debt and we wouldn’t pay for both undergrad AND med school. Ugh! lol</p>