<p>Here's the deal. I went to a top-10 undergrad school and got a 3.91 with a 170+ LSAT. During undergrad, I won a few awards for my thesis and am now in a foreign country on a scholarship doing research on that country's legal system.</p>
<p>Here's the problem: I did a one-year masters program at the London School of Economics in between (in a non-law subject) and did well in all my classes, except my dissertation, which I only passed. I honestly don't know what the hell happened and am very concerned. My question is, even though my overall degree result will be fine, will the fact that I got a poor mark on a research paper significantly hurt my chances at any laws schools, particularly HYS? Or will my undergrad outweigh that?</p>
<p>So, on a scale from 1 - 10, one being not at all screwed to ten being forget HYS, how screwed am I?</p>
<p>I do think it would be nearly impossible for any of us to guess what effect that would have on your application. I mean, if it's something really out of whack with everything else, there's no way to guess how any admissions person would view it. OTOH, if that grade were your only research paper grade, it might be very detrimental.</p>
<p>first off, graduate programs are not heavily factored in admissions, and graduate program grades are not factored in at all. Law school adcome will never see them</p>
<p>On the contrary, generally, law school admissions officers will see your graduate school grades. If a degree shows up on your resume, in fact, you will generally have to submit an official transcript.</p>
<p>Grades are not factored if it is for a grad program period. Why, becuase grad programs will usually not allow you to get below a 3.0. They will be happy that you are striving for a greater understanding of a subject which shows commitment, but grades mean nothing.</p>
<p>There can be a big difference between what LSAC uses to calculate your GPA and what the law schools actually do with the information. LSAC does whatever it is that it does with your undergraduate grades to come up with a GPA, but the law schools to which a prospective student applies will see each and every transcript that that student has had. The law schools are indeed interested to see how you did in your graduate program -- particularly if that graduate program has courses that are considerably more challenging than undergraduate coursework. Law schools can take or leave the GPA that is calculated by LSAC.</p>
<p>Even if graduate programs are loathe to give grades below 3.0, so are many undergraduate schools.</p>
<p>Please contact a few adcoms at the top schools and then respond. GRADUATE PROGRAM GRADES ARE NOT FACTORED INTO IT. Undergrad grades are all that matter, and what extra points are given due to prestige, inflation or deflation are up to the decision of that admissions staff.</p>
<p>instead of just repeating your position, perhaps it would be more helpful to those reading the thread if you would explain the basis for your statements and what your background is -- for eg, are you involved in law school admissions? </p>
<p>repeating an assertion, and even YELLING it just isn't a very persuasive way of presenting a position.</p>
<p>background? instead of explaining, i told her what to do. Contact admissions herself so she can understand. YELLING or capital letters is to reinforce what i said before, maybe she would like to read it again and consider. I have contacted several adcoms and have been told what happens, as well knowing one from each ucla and usc. Background enough for you? There was no persuading here, i specifically said that she was wrong, especially in regards to HYS. Lower ranked schools may position themselves differently, but as the op was referring to top ranked schools, there wasnt much point in stating that independently.</p>
<p>pasedena (and any others who would like to respond): you said that graduate degree grades are not factored in at all in law admissions decisions. Others here don't seem so sure, but everyone here seems to agree they are far less important than undergraduate GPA. Fine.</p>
<p>Does the mere prescence of a graduate degree positively impact admissions decisions, or is this, like the graduate grades, only a very minor factor?</p>
<p>it does positively impact their final decisions, but it is still very minor in comparison to you undergrad GPA, lsat score, work experience, ec, lor and other life experiences.</p>
<p>You may be debating two different things, here. Sally didn't claim that schools factor grad school grades into the GPA...she simply claimed that they <em>MAY</em> still look at them, which seems to make sense. I have no idea what's true, but reading the thread, I'm not positive people are on the same page.</p>
<p>And though it's irrelevant now (and I'm no expert), I don't think that a passed dissertation from a prestigious international grad school that one's attending on scholarship can POSSIBLY be <em>too</em> detrimental to an application.</p>
<p>Southpasdena,
Don't forget that there are lawyers here on the board who have been through the process -- admissions, law school and practice. In fact, there are lawyers here who are actually involved in the admissions process at their alma mater law schools. You need to relax and re-read what I wrote. Law schools will see every transcript from every school you have ever attended - community college, summer courses during college, undergrad and yes, graduate school. Don't think for a second that doing very well or doing horribly in your graduate studies won't raise eyebrows in the law school admissions office. In fact, with the increasing trend in law school admissions to favor candidates who have gained full time work experience and/or graduate degrees before applying to law school, it's hard to imagine why you would think that a graduate program would be disregarded entirely. </p>
<p>Oh, and in the future, I would appreciate it if you would please address me with some professionalism, respect and courtesy, as any lawyer or want-to-be lawyer should be doing in his or her profession. Contact admissions staff myself so I can understand? Sure.
Sally</p>
<p>again and again i will say since my last post was deleted by admins, contact adcoms yourself and ask. no more debating is needed. I never said the grad degree will be disregarded, i said the grades will not be factored into the decision. The grades. Makes sense since the avg grade for a grad program is 3.2 or higher. </p>
<p>Professionalism is one thing, this is a forum and isnt needed, respect and courtesy, sorry if i am brash and aggresive, that is something i will work on, but professionalism is something this board is not.</p>
<p>And work experience is up/grad school before law has remained consitant, there is no confusing the two</p>
<p>I have a hard time imagining that, in any situation, no admissions officer would even consider graduate school grades. If your undergraduate degree is in something like engineering and you got low grades, your graduate grades may provide a basis for comparing you to other students. Likewise, a student who did badly for two years of college and then picked it up during junior/senior year could look like a pretty good candidate, and a graduate degree would show if its a trend or if the person just started taking easier classes. </p>
<p>Sally's position is very defensible, which is that graduate school grades may matter, considering that schools actually have them.</p>
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Professionalism is one thing, this is a forum and isnt needed, respect and courtesy, sorry if i am brash and aggresive, that is something i will work on, but professionalism is something this board is not.
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<p>I think Sally is still a practicing attorney. That she would take time out on this forum to help out prospective law school applicants is reason enough to be appreciative of whatever help she provides, no matter how much it contradicts your beliefs.</p>
<p>I know I am the epitome of being an *******, but unless you want to use the ad hominem TQ fallacy to disregard my statements, they still stand. Never bite the hand that feeds; if you do, at least try to be as amiable as possible so that the hand may feel generous enough to feed sometime again in the future.</p>
<p>I have not taken the LSAT, that is correct, as it is not time, nor am i confident that a law degree is right for me. But i have done my research and do know people that review applications and i have asked these very questions. I will trust what they say over everything else, especially on something as questionable as a forum full of good facts, bad facts and personal opinions. That is why i said contact admissions, as i cannot be wholly trusted, nor can anyone else on this board. Taking some time to find out on one's own will provide the best results period.</p>
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I have not taken the LSAT, that is correct, as it is not time, nor am i confident that a law degree is right for me. But i have done my research and do know people that review applications and i have asked these very questions.
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<p>I would be interested in knowing who you know; I also know plenty of people who are involved or were involved in the process, and they seem to lend credence to Sally's point.</p>
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I will trust what they say over everything else, especially on something as questionable as a forum full of good facts, bad facts and personal opinions.
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<p>I was not asking you to blindly accept Sally's statements. I was supporting her complaint about your demeanor. Try to show a little more respect to her, given that she is taking time out to help all of us, even if her opinions contradict your beliefs.</p>