HELP! Cal vs. Pomona

<p>I went to Cal Day with my friends today and had a lot of fun. I also visited Pomona and the Claremont schools last week. </p>

<p>Here is my problem.</p>

<p>CAL:</p>

<p>I love the urban setting, the huge number of people and the tremendous number of resources available both on and off campus. There is just so much to do at Cal besides academics, from clubs to great food to shopping!</p>

<p>I realize that there are freshman seminars and the large lecture courses split into smaller groups with GSI's who I assume are qualified. Yet I don't know how much education one can really receive from such an overwhelming and reputedly competitive environment. I'm also skeptical of the focus on undergraduate education. </p>

<p>POMONA:</p>

<p>I love that Pomona is solely devoted to undergraduate education without graduate schools overshadowing it. I really like the intimacy with professors and classmates and the opportunities available to the undergraduate class. I also like that it is with 4 other colleges (Claremont, Scripps, Harvey Mudd, Scripps; thank goodness for Scripps).</p>

<p>I dislike the seemingly lack of just plain things to do there. I know it's a tough comparison with Berkeley, a huge urban setting, but it's something I really enjoy and it sucks that it doesn't exist there. The diversity lacks and I'm rather skeptical of the plain fun and amount of resources I'll have at my disposal at Pomona.</p>

<p>HELP! WHICH DO I GO FOR?!? </p>

<p>(Is Rice a possible solution? I want to but not sure if I can visit in time...)</p>

<p>I've heard very good things about Rice. All three are great schools, no doubt. At any of the schools, you will most likely need to work hard to do well. I think Berkeley's "super cutthroat competitive nature" is overblown, and it's most certainly not campus-wide and within the soul of every student. </p>

<p>What do you plan on studying, or what general fields interest you? What do you plan on doing in life (graduate school, professional school, profession, ect)?</p>

<p>coloseum10,</p>

<p>I would rather go to CAL-Berkeley if I were you. CAL_Berkeley is a very popular name abroad. No one has heard of Pomona if you're in Asia. But then again, what are the chances of you working or living in Asia (Japan, China, Philippines, S-Korea, Singapore) anyway??? he he he</p>

<p>I'm incredulous that Pomona can somehow be compared to Cal...</p>

<p>With regard to what?</p>

<p>Pomona is obviously smaller and focused on undergraduate education. It's really a matter of a liberal arts school versus a national university.</p>

<p>I chose between Cal and Scripps, and ultimately wound up at Scripps. At the time, I told my disappointed father "I love Cal. I'll be back to look for grad school," and sure enough, it's quite high on my list for "Places I'd love to go" for my next step. Ultimately, my feeling was that Berkeley has AMAZING resources, prestige, etc., but that I would not be experiencing most of it as an undergrad. I wanted, as you say, the full focus, access to everything. If my professors are Nobel winners, awesome, but what good is that if I'm watching them on a TV screen in an auditorium? I'd rather have the "plain old" Phd. professor but get to have dinner at her house. Obviously, I'm making gross generalizations, b/c not every experience at either school will be like this, but you get the idea.</p>

<p>If you can figure out what is more important to you, you'll go a long way in solving your problem. If you want the huge urban setting and don't think you could stand suburbia, then you will HATE Claremont. On the other hand, there's not a lot of need to get off campus...we're pretty self-contained, and there are SOME nice areas nearby (The Village, which I've heard they want to make more appealing to students). While LA is easy to get to, we are definitely NOT in it. Remember that matters of campus beauty, general atmosphere, quality of food, surrounding area, etc. <em>ARE</em> relevant and are in many ways as important as questions of academics. It is crucial to remember that this is not ONLY your school, it will also be your HOME. I really didn't grasp that during my own search and lucked out into picking the right place (for me) anyway.</p>

<p>What I can tell you is that you really don't need to worry about Pomona having a lack of things to do or a lack of resources, even relatively speaking. (1) There is a TON to do. There is at least 5x the amount that you'd expect. Whether you mean parties, things like movies and game nights, lectures, concerts, or whatever else, there's an overwhelming amount as long as you're willing to utilize the other campuses (while it's available to you, Pomona students often underuse the other 4C resources simply because they're farther removed in distance and their own facilities are often independently sufficient...if you do wind up at Pomona, my biggest piece of advice: use the other schools!!!). (2) Same goes with resources. Together, the schools have a HUGE pool of resources (including the 3rd largest academic library west of the Mississippi...it's true, lol). We also have a system which allows us access to most other SoCal college libraries, including those of the UCs (libraries being my random example). One plus is that these resources are usually pretty available to all students, and the schools are small enough that individual exceptions can usually be made. For example, Scripps has music practice rooms which music students can access any time with their student IDs. I'm not a music student, but I do play the piano, so I requested and was granted special access to the practice rooms. Though I cite Scripps, the personalization allowed by small schools applies to all of Claremont. One of the reasons I ultimately chose Claremont was b/c I wanted the best of both worlds...the small school, personal attention, etc. combined with major resources.</p>

<p>If prestige and name recognition mean a lot to you, then Claremont might drive you nuts. That is one thing that I sometimes find hard...people disregarding my school because they've never heard of it, when I know how wonderful it is, and when I was so close to going to places with names. It's not a big deal, but some people find it very important.</p>

<p>Ultimately, my guidance counselor had me make a table. I had a column for each school and a row for my top 5 factors, in order of importance (availability of my major, niceness of dorms/food, small classes, school size, location, or whatever). I ranked each school independently (so they could share rankings...two schools might both get a 3 in size, for example) and then multiplied each score by the inverse of its importance (so the first most important got multiplied by 5, the second most important got multiplied by 4, the third by 3, fourth by 2, and fifth by 1). In the end, Scripps came out waaaaaaaaaay ahead and I realized that I was probably putting too much emphasis on the thought of "why go to this school nobody's heard of that costs all this money when I could go to BERKELEY"! That's not to say that Berkeley's not an amazing institution, but I was definitely letting its name cloud my vision (and same goes for the other school in the mix).</p>

<p>Both schools are great. I think I could've been extremely happy at either and I imagine that you could be, too, given your deliberation. I'm glad that I chose small for undergrad because I think it will give me the better preparation for post-grad, where I look forward into trying something larger and more urban. Like you, I want the best of all worlds...good luck in your decision :o)</p>

<ul>
<li>Just realized that this was a weird time to be asking this question since confirmations should already have been sent in. I see that the original post was from April...were you sending in your confirmation on 5/1, are you already a junior, or are you a transfer who can confirm later? If the first of those...let us know how things turned out!</li>
</ul>

<p>A few things- class lectures, to my knowledge, are not broadcast in a TV on an audiotroium ever- some are broadcast over the internet and recorded there for later viewing, but never are they simultaneously broadcast because people need a closer view of the professor or something.</p>

<p>When hearing about the Claremonts, I remember the library being the third largest private library West of the Mississippi, but I can't find anything online supporting that, or what you said. I foumd this</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ala.org/ala/alalibrary/libraryfactsheet/alalibraryfactsheet22.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ala.org/ala/alalibrary/libraryfactsheet/alalibraryfactsheet22.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>What do you make of it?</p>

<p>(1) My comment about televised lectures was hyperbole, which I attempted to account for in the proceeding sentence. I was citing a random experience of my father, an LSU/Alabama grad, which he often jokes about in reference to large schools. And quite frankly, if there are hundreds of students in your intro class, then it doesn't make much practical difference whether the professor is standing in front of you or is telecast. That said, this is a FACT of most large public schools, and is not an atmosphere that appeals to everyone. It is not any sort of an insult to Cal or to the quality of its education. Freshman year, a good friend and I were taking the same intro math class at Berkeley and Claremont, respectively. She was happy that her class had dwindled to 200+ students while I was content in a class of 8. She was happy, I was happy, and we both probably would have gone nuts in the other's situation. That was my only point :-)</p>

<p>(2) I haven't gone looking online to respond to you, but I'm a campus tourguide and am taking my facts straight from what I've been taught in that position. I don't know what to make of the fact sheet for a few reasons: (a) Claremont has 2,000,000+ volumes in hard copy, not including periodicals and microfiche. I don't know exactly what the fact sheet is including in its count, and (b) Claremont has 5 libraries and only one of them belongs to the consortium. The others belong to separate institutions. The system in its entirety functions the same as it would if it were set up as multiple branches of one university's library system, but it would probably be counted as five separate libraries on a fact sheet such as the one you provided. That said, the sheet could be right and I've been spouting lies (in which case, my apologies). So take my statistic out. Main point: Claremont has or has access to plenty of books. As many as you'll need. Very random example of abundant resources, b/c I happened to have numbers offhand.</p>

<p>On second thought, I recall some courses do have simultaneous broadcasts within the same room to more easily see the board or some small experiment. I was mistaken earlier. However, I would also point out that in the largest lecture halls, most, at least half of the students can see the stage or area where the professor will be quite easily and there is no need for magnification besides in small details, and that one can generally sit very close if one puts in very little effort (walking more forward, showing up before 20 minutes in a class, ect). I disagree, and think that there is a practical difference between a video and a professor, even with over two hundred students, and many of my favorite academic moments have been talking to professors, although I prefer to do it after class. Your point makes lots of sense, and I agree, it is about what is best for each student.</p>

<p>I am not claiming that you're lying. I know the Claremonts have huge library resources. I suggest that you suggest to the Claremonts to make whatever you say on the tour easily accessible on the websites as they love to talk about it in presentations, as I couldn't find it online, and that they be precise and accurate in what they're claiming. And like Berkeley's collection, the Claremont's collection will probably far more than anyone ever will ever need.</p>