Help choosing ED school, UVA or Cornell

College Search & Selection
21

Cornell eliminated the option to add a second college to the app.

This line “Second choice would be Econ, political science, policy, pre-law type direction.” makes me think that ILR could be a good fit, as the coursework aligns well. Has she attended an ILR info session? My info may be out of date, but they used to host these roundtable info sessions where the AdCom would ask each student why he was interested in ILR.

Students in any college at Cornell are also allowed to pursue a business minor. (The Hotel school used to be the exception, but now that Hotel is under the Johnson School of Business, they no longer need to list it as an exception.)

https://dyson.cornell.edu/programs/undergraduate/minors/university-wide-business/

It is also possible to apply to transfer to Dyson, but no guarantees. Generally, Cornell makes it fairly easy to transfer between colleges, but the demand for Dyson is high, so the admission is not guaranteed. Someone may have Dyson admission stats. I recall reading that the first year class doubled by second year with transfers, approximately half external and half internal, but I read that years ago so it may be out of date.

https://dyson.cornell.edu/programs/undergraduate/admissions/internal-transfer/

I agree that applying to UVA the first year they are offering ED may be advantageous. Would she be happy with the other academic offerings at Virginia if she were not admitted to the Comm School?

22

We had thought that another application to the business school for UVA is a con, but after touring the school and talking to different students in and out of McIntire, we found it could actually be a plus. As 1) kids change their minds about majors often, 2) broader education is always good for undergrad, and 3) the acceptance rate to McIntire is above 50%.

23

Just bumping in case anyone else has insight into these two schools. We are visiting Cornell again so she can attend an ILR info session. I’m hoping that will give her some clarity.

She is struggling to decide. There’s always the what ifs? But I told her that will always be true because in the end you have to choose. You’ll never know if you would’ve been happier elsewhere. Just here you’re making the choice earlier.

Thanks!

24

Seems like if the student is not sure which is her no-regrets first choice (that is affordable), then it may not be a good idea to apply ED anywhere.

25

Since you’re visiting Cornell again I would strongly suggest another visit to UVA as well. We are OOS and my daughter was thrilled with UVA until she visited again after her acceptance. On 2nd visit, things that didn’t appeal to her suddenly became obvious. This could happen with any school, not just UVA.

It is a big decision to ED so I would encourage as much time on campus as possible.
Try to ask a lot of questions of random students (such as ease of registering for classes, quality of academic advising, social life for OOS students, etc.) before making that decision. Good luck!

26

Can you expand upon your daughter’s likes & dislikes about Cornell & Virginia ?

Which schools has she crossed off her list & why ?

Washington University in St. Louis might be another school to consider.

Since Cornell University is a known experience, it may be the safer choice.

27

@Publisher

From earlier in the thread, these were her thoughts on these two schools (below). I can’t expand on it too much. Since the Cornell visit was during the summer, we are revisiting so she can see it in session. We are also going to do info sessions for both Dyson (again) and ILR so she can compare them. We will do our best to find her a place to people watch and talk to students. Also going to attend Hillel dinner. I am hoping this will give her clarity and she’ll know if it’s “the one” for ED. If she still has reservations, she will likely ED UVA instead.

We visited over 12 schools. Her current list is Cornell, UVA, UNC, Michigan, Emory, Northeastern, WashU, Penn State, Indiana, U Miami and American. We have not visited a few but will do so if they become top contenders in the spring. Others we visited that she didn’t like - BU, GW, Wake Forest, William and Mary, Brandeis.

Cornell: She did a summer class there last summer and had a great experience. She also was in the top 10% of her class so the teacher wrote her a rec letter. She would be applying to Dyson or ILR.
Pros: strong business school, strong overall reputation, large jewish population, less than 4 hours from home, she likes the campus. Cons: Dyson acceptance is 3% RD, not sure about ED, no idea for ILR, weather, is the school very intense or cutthroat? Not sure about that.

UVA: Visited during Spring Break. Loved campus, people she met, business school, etc. Pleasantly surprised by the Hillel offerings. Pros: strong business school, strong overall reputation, better chance of acceptance, good Hillel, good weather, likes the campus, maybe more relaxed vibe than Cornell?. Cons: Farther from home, smaller Jewish population, has to apply to business school in second year (she liked the idea of that, but having to apply in is still a con).

@newyorkmom2girl - what were your daughter’s concerns about UVA on the second visit? We won’t be able to visit again before the Oct. 15 deadline. But, we saw the school in session in April and she was able to talk to a lot of students then. She loved the school. I know no place is perfect, but her visit pretty much was. But I’d love to hear any feedback that might help her.

Thanks!

28

“Lack of school spirit? Clearly @rickle1 you have not attended a Cornell ice hockey game ; )”

@momofsenior1 clearly has never attended a home game for UVA’s national championship mens basketball team. 15,000 seat arena – always sold out. : )

@musicmom1215 My advice – don’t overthink it. Your kid will never get to run the double blind experiment. Whether it is in mid-November or Mid-April, your kid is going to pick one school and (once enrolled) will likely never look back or contemplate the road not taken. Also, no matter which school the kid chooses, there’s always a possibility that the chosen school won’t work out.

UVA OOS for an unhooked non-legacy applicant is every bit as tough and uncertain an admit as Cornell. UVA only gives the legacy tip to OOS legacy applicants, so a large portion of UVA’s OOS admits are legacies. So I’d recommend playing the ED card.

Do your best to discern a clear leader based on size, location, vibe, weather, school colors, etc. But end of day, these are two great schools with lots of similarities. UVA is a state school that feels like a private in many ways, while Cornell is a private that feels in some ways like a state school (as its Ivy peers often point out). Better to have your kid go to one of these great schools than neither.

Hard to say for sure since it is UVA’s first cycle with ED. But I’d speculate that UVA added ED so it could nail down 100% yield on 1560/4.0 OOS applicants just like your kid. So if your kid is really still waffling, I’d say go for the (likely) better odds of UVA ED.

29

@northwesty I don’t believe I said Cornell didn’t have school spirit (at least I didn’t intend to convey that). What I meant to say was it wasn’t on the same level as UVA which has a rabid fan base and big time D1 ACC sports, national coverage, etc.

30

For business school, Cornell, Virginia, Michigan, WashUStL, Emory, UNC & Indiana are great options.

Based on schools visited, it appears that both you & your daughter are well informed.

31

I think my concern would be that you’re listing pros and cons based on what the student wants or likes. That’s important. But have you also learned enough about what makes her a strong contender for those colleges, from their perspective?

Because Early apps aren’t going to tip, just for submitting sooner.

32

“Because Early apps aren’t going to tip, just for submitting sooner.”

At Cornell (like all the Ivies) you have to adjust the ED advantage by backing out the athletes and legacies (who typically apply ED). But Cornell filled 44% of its seat via ED in the last cycle, up from 37% five years ago. Presumably the number of legacies and athletes isn’t going up, so more seats are getting gobbled up through ED. So if you want to assume there’s no tippy-ness to an ED application, you do so at your own peril.

Hard to say for sure (since it is the first cycle), but I think an ED application to UVA by a non-legacy OOS applicant is likely to be tippy this year. Because ED is all about yield.

UVA already has great yield on in-state offers (both EA and RD) because the price/value ratio is so good there. It also gets good yield on OOS legacy offers. But it has very low yield on other OOS offers – because the kids who meet the very high admit standards in this part of the pool are also getting accepted to lots of other great schools.

So it would seem that UVA added ED precisely so that it could lock in enrollments from high stat OOS kids just like the OP’s.

33

They pick more kids from the subset that’s highly competitive/compelling. It’s not a random boost. Hence, my advice to know match better than just what any kid wants.

It doesn’t mater if anyone thinks ED is an advantage. It matters more whether an ED app brings a particular student, any help, considering his or her own record and the rest of the app. It’s not like they add points.