<p>My son is admitted to 2 high schools. One is IB program at a centralized high school, the other is specialty center specialized in math and science at our local high school which offers AP courses. Can you please tell me which program is better for him to get into "elite" college 4 years later? It is harder to get into the "math and science center" than the IB program. But I was told that IB is a worldwide program and is more recognized by colleges. Our local "math and science center" although is very hard to be accepted and only talented kids can get in, but not well recognized outside our city. Also, it is harder to get good GPA at the "math and science center" than the IB program. Should we choose IB over the "math and science center" for college's sake? Thanks.</p>
<p>sydclu, </p>
<p>I did IB so I’m very biased. But for me, IB made me become a better person and a better student. In IB you TOK, Theory of Knowledge, it’s a subject that defies all your preconceived ideas and challenges the ways you acquire knowledge. It also has a CAS program, Creativity, Action and Service. Which means your kid will get to do tons of EC’s, since it’s an IB requirement. </p>
<p>But it really depends on what the IB school your kid got into offers. Check it out to see what subjects/activities they offer and which ones you think your son will like the most/will be most successful at/are more respected by the colleges he’s aiming to be admitted.</p>
<p>Although I don’t know anything about your Specialty Center, it seems to be pretty different from IB, in that it is science/math heavy. IB is multi-disciplinary, unified, and very global in its perspective. It is a well-rounded program intended to develop many different aspects of a student’s school work. Your science/math school with APs thrown in sounds more scattered. As far as getting into an elite college, it’s hard to predict anything these days.</p>
<p>Ask some questions about the IB program: How long have they had full IB certification? How many students received the IB diploma last year? How many did not get diplomas out of those who graduated last year? What have the IB score results been? What classes are offered at the HL level? At the SL level? What percentage of students who start pre-IB in the program in 9th grade go on to get IB diplomas?</p>
<p>IB is a well-recognized international program, but the schools that offer IB vary a lot in what they offer. At D’s HS, in the early years of IB, students basically HAD to take an HL science or math course in order to meet the diploma requirements because the school didn’t have enough other HL course offerings. That made IB much harder for the students who were okay-but-not-great in science/math. In more recent years the school has now added a lot more HL courses in different subjects, and so students with less interest/aptitude in math/science can take those at the SL level, and take HL courses in humanities or social sciences. </p>
<p>Also, find out about scheduling. IB students were very challenged in trying to take music each year of high school – particularly with Theory of Knowledge starting second semester of junior year, and HL biology requiring an additional semester of biochem. Their options were very constrained. Most of the IB students had to take at least one class on-line (health, PE, …) in order to make the schedule work at all. But, in a different school with different scheduling that might not be as much of an issue. </p>
<p>Sounds like your son has some good choices ahead!</p>
<p>OP, how long has IB been at that school? That can make a real difference in the quality of the local program – although probably not much difference in the perceptions of colleges, which think highly of IB.</p>
<p>x-posted with arabrab</p>
<p>The school has had the IB program for many years. They offer HL to almost all 11th adn 12th grade, except math only SL. Most of there students got IB diploma. 3/4 of the kids entered the program and graduated with IB diploma. Do Ivy league prefer IB over AP?</p>
<p>I think it also depends on your son’s interests. If he is more interested in science than humanities he may be able to take more higher level science courses as one year AP courses than in IB since for the IB diploma he will have to take English, humanities (social studies) and foreign language every year and the science courses are normally two years. At most he would be able to take two different sciences.</p>
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<p>If he really likes math, an IB program that only offers SL in math is likely to be disappointing to him, unless it is easy (from a scheduling and administrative point of view) to take college (or at least AP) calculus courses while doing the IB program.</p>
<p>IB Math HL is equal to or better than AP Calculus BC, but IB Math SL is less advanced than AP Calculus AB, based on what colleges give credit for.</p>
<p>at 12th grade, they offer DP mathematics (SL) and elective AP Calculus. I assume the AP Calculus is only Calculus AB, so it will not be sufficient if he chooses to study engineering, right?</p>
<p>AB is usually accepted as equivalent to one semester or one quarter of college calculus, except at super-elite STEM-oriented schools. However, students should be aware that AB covers material at half the pace of college calculus, so a student who struggled to get a 3 or 4 on the AP test may find second semester college freshman calculus a shock.</p>
<p>For example, here is the recommendation from the Math Department at UC Berkeley:
[url=<a href=“http://math.berkeley.edu/courses/choosing/ap-exams]Advanced”>http://math.berkeley.edu/courses/choosing/ap-exams]Advanced</a> Placement (AP) Examinations | Department of Mathematics at University of California Berkeley<a href=“Math%201A%20and%201B%20are%20the%20first%20and%20second%20semester%20freshman%20calculus%20courses%20for%20math%20and%20engineering%20majors;%20Math%2053%20and%2054%20are%20the%20sophomore%20level%20math%20courses.”>/url</a></p>
<p>Also, except at the super-elite STEM-oriented schools, most engineering degree programs are structured to allow the student to enter without having previously taken calculus. But starting in a more advanced math course can give some additional “breathing room” in the schedule.</p>
<p>Thanks. If he does not want to study engineering, does IB give him better chance to get into Ivy league type of school?</p>
<p>DD2 (the academic genius) is starting the pre-IB program in the fall (at a school where IB has been around for ever). They seem to have a good emphasis in Biology and even offer pre-IB Biology in 9th grade as well as pre-IB English and some Social Study class. </p>
<p>DD2 has no problems with writing (just completed a 30 page fiction story for her 8th grade class - the assignment called for 5-6 but her character development needed more space :)). The school’s lab facilities rival those of a small college, so she’s quite excited. </p>
<p>They also offer the ‘math lite’ IB version (HL and SL or some alphabet soup) because I remember looking into the program and saw the two options, the HL was quite the package. Music is not an issue (10 year piano classes) and the school even offers IB foreign language (French) conveniently enough. College credit is not an issue for us. </p>
<p>Like post#11 mentioned above, we are hoping for an ‘advantage’ (whether real or perceived) of the IB diploma for a top 20 type school in a Biology type field (not engineering or math). Whether it pans out or not that is another story…</p>
<p>It sounds as though either program would provide good preparation for an academically rigorous college – provided that the student does well in the program and is comfortable there.</p>
<p>I think that this is a time for your son to take a good look at himself. What does he like? What are his strengths? Which program does he feel is the best fit for him.</p>
<p>IB, if the school runs it well (and it sounds as though the school your son would attend does), is an excellent program. But it is not well suited for everyone, and it can be a horrible experience for the wrong student. IB is for generalists. A student with a strong interest in a particular field would not be able to spend anywhere near as much time pursuing that interest as he would in a regular high school (or in a science/math program if that interest is in science and math). Also, although IB looks very flexible, that’s mostly on a national and international level, where the program accommodates different states’ and countries’ graduation requirements. At the individual school level, IB can be quite rigid. It is also very time-consuming – much more so than a regular high school program in most cases.</p>
<p>Your local math/science specialty program may not be nationally known, but it teaches courses that are – AP courses. And it teaches them to a highly qualified group of students who are especially interested in math and science. So it sounds OK to me provided that your son’s has a strong special interest in math and science. It might not be a good choice if he is not ready to specialize or if his interests lie elsewhere.</p>
<p>Another factor to consider is the locations of the two schools. High school students often need to come in early or stay late for extracurricular activities. Is the fact that the IB program is at a school that is not in your neighborhood going to be a problem? Is there good public transportation that your son can use? Or is there a family member who has a flexible work schedule and can drive him where he needs to go or pick him up at school at odd times?</p>
<p>In my area, there are centralized, selective math/science and IB programs. Some kids who apply to them and are admitted have a good experience; some don’t. Some who stay at their local high schools and do the regular program have a good experience; some don’t. It depends on the student.</p>
<p>A few stories:</p>
<p>My son chose not to apply to either of the specialized programs. He wanted the greater freedom in course selection offered by our local high school, and he did not want to have to waste time traveling to a different school. It worked out well for him. He was able to take many electives, including several courses in computer science, which ended up being his college major. And he found good part-time jobs in the local neighborhood – which was important to him because he was always spending money on computer hardware and software. He could not have had those jobs if he had to travel to a distant school.</p>
<p>My daughter applied only to the IB program. She chose not to apply to the math/science program because she did not feel ready to specialize. She was accepted into the IB program, and it worked out well for her. As she went through high school, she realized that although she liked math and social studies, she did not enjoy science. She was very glad not to be in the math/science program, where she would have had to focus heavily on science. She ended up majoring in economics in college.</p>
<p>A classmate of one of my kids also applied to the IB program and was accepted. But after his acceptance, he and his parents had second thoughts. They realized that the distant location of the IB school would be a problem for them in terms of transportation, and that he could not get back and forth by public bus because the buses don’t serve the neighborhood he lives in. The student and his parents decided that the IB program would be too much of a hardship because of transportation issues. He attended his neighborhood high school. He did very well there and was admitted to a college that offered exactly what he wanted – good academics and a good program in a field that especially interested him.</p>
<p>Another classmate of one of my kids applied to both the math/science program and the IB program and was accepted by both. She preferred one of the two programs, but her parents thought the other was better. She agreed to attend the program her parents chose, but she did not do as well there as she might have done in the other program because it was not a good fit for her talents and interests. Her grades were not as high as they would have been in the other program or in the regular high school. She was also not particularly happy. When the time came to apply to college, she was disappointed with her admissions results. Unlike the other three students I’ve described, she was either rejected or waitlisted by her top choices and had to settle for a less selective college.</p>
<p>So my suggestion is to ask your kid what he wants and listen to the answers. He probably has a preference, and I think it would be best to respect it – unless he prefers the IB program but transportation would be a huge problem for the family.</p>
<p>As a side note, I do not think admissions looks too deeply into AP vs IB, as most students do not have a choice of what high school they attend, and what program that high school offers. As long as he takes the most challenging curriculum at whichever school he choses (and excels), he should be in good shape for ivy level admission.</p>
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<p>This may not be quite correct. IB requires 3 or 4 HL courses at the most, the rest (either 2 or 3) SL. So your son couldn’t get all HL courses. It’s a very different thing than the APs and colleges probably don’t care, as someone else says above, because it depends on your child taking best advantage of the programs offered at his or her school.</p>
<p>@franglish: It may be correct that they offer that many HL courses, but the school must offer some of those subjects at the SL level as well because students must take at least 2 of their 6 subjects SL. </p>
<p>I have noticed that some IB schools offer many courses at both levels.</p>
<p>It is odd that an IB program would not offer HL in math, since math is one of the more common subjects that students are advanced in (even students who are not going to major in math or engineering).</p>
<p>Agree with others that it likely matters more which school and program the student has a better academic fit with.</p>
<p>Here is what his IB program will offer at 12th grade:</p>
<p>DP English 12 (HL)
DP Mathematical Study (SL) or DP Mathematics (SL)
DP Biology (SL or HL) or DP Chemistry (SL or HL)
DP World Topics (HL)
DP French/Spanish V (SL) or VI (SL or HL)
DP Theory of Knowledge
DP Visual Arts (HL)
DP Theatre Arts (SL or HL)
DP Psychology (SL or HL)
AP electives: Calculus, Physics, Statistics, Environmental Science, World History and Art History</p>
<p>If he’s already finished algebra and perhaps geometry in 8th grade, and is a strong math student interested in engineering/sciences, I’d be a little wary of an IB program that does not have an HL math course, unless the AP calculus is Calculus BC. I notice they also do not have IB Physics, which may be a function of not having enough students with appropriate math preparation.</p>
<p>I don’t see a problem with the math. If the student is advanced enough in math that he could have taken HL math in his senior year, chances are that, with a judicious choice of courses in the IB program, he will have a free period in which to take a calculus course – and that’s enough math preparation for any college.</p>
<p>In the event that the only calculus course available is AB, and the student is planning to study engineering or a physical science in college and therefore would like to go in to college with a more extensive background in calculus, it should be possible to take a second-semester calculus course at a local college during the summer between high school and college. That summer tends to be mostly wasted anyway.</p>