<p>First, I'd like to thank all you guys in this forum. I've learned a lot about US grad school application from your posts. Special thx to molliebatmit, snowcapk and DespSeekPhd for insightful posts in the forum.</p>
<p>Thanks to all the tips in this forum, I am admitted to some master's programs:
CMU (Robotics, tuition waiver + stipends from RAships)
Yale (EE, no funding)
UCLA (EE, no funding)
Columbia (ME, no funding)</p>
<p>Considering that my major is Control & Mechanical Engineering, CMU Robotics program and their research theme appeals to me most, especially that they give me full funding. However, CMU is less well known in my country and all the people I've asked prefer Yale over those four. Of course being an Ivy League member and all, Yale is very prestigious and it would be an honor to be able to attend the university. But what about its engineering program? Is Yale EE as good as CMU Robotics? On the other hand, is CMU as prestigious as Yale?</p>
<p>Also, CMU Robotics seems to incorporate a lot of practices and experiments of making robots (?) in their program, whereas Yale, Columbia, and UCLA seems to emphasize more on theory. Please enlighten me if I am wrong.</p>
<p>So... What do you guys think? Considering aspects such as: prestige, academics quality, rankings, and job opportunity in US, which is the best choice?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance! Your inputs are greatly appreaciated!</p>
<p>Based on overall engineering reputation, Carnegie Mellon is by far better known and respected than Yale in the US. Since your are an international student, it depends on whether you want to return home when you are done or want to seek work in the US. If you want to go home, then grab the "prestige" of Yale, but if you want a job in the US I'd go with CMU. Not only is it a better engineering school, but you won't have to pay a dime, which is always a good thing. I don't know how much it would be to support yourself though a Master's at Yale, but I can imagine it will be high.</p>
<p>Yale is good in this area, but CMU is better. CMU is probably one of the best programs in the world. And there's the whole money thing.</p>
<p>In the US, Yale is more prestigious to random people than CMU, because it's a better-known university overall. But people who know anything about EECS (like employers, or PhD programs) know CMU, and know how good it is. For a job in the US, either will probably serve you well, but CMU has the edge.</p>
<p>Isn't CMU ranked like 1st/2nd with Stanford for Engineering?</p>
<p>I concur with uefastation. The two schools are NOT that similar. They give you different opportunities for your future. Your choice should depend largely on your plans for your future. Make that decision, and your decision of grad school should be mostly set.</p>
<p>CMU also recently won the $2 million Urban Challenge prize from the U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency for a self-driving vehicle. I think Stanford took second. CMU is pretty huge in robotics, I am pretty sure all the people you've asked are just responding to the name Yale. Like has been said, when dealing with employers and PhD programs, CMU will be very well known for robotics. Most importantly, if that is your best research fit, go there. You will get the most out of it and be the happiest.</p>
<p>someone mentioned above that you're an international student. i don't think u can put a price on a "Yale" degree if you are from some foreign, particularly non-English-speaking country. people in those countries will not judge you by your training, they will judge you by the school you attended. </p>
<p>i've lived and worked in a foreign academic setting (Asia), and the "legitimacy" you would receive by having just attended Yale, will be significant. i'm not trying to discount the "fit" and "top-tier education" you'd get at CMU, but Yale will stay with you long after you return to your country and start a career (it is entirely possible some people in these countries won't have even heard of CMU).</p>
<p>i've seen too many examples of extremely powerful individuals in Asia who are Ivy graduates. is it BECAUSE they are from Ivy, or is it because of their talent to begin with? who knows, but success and Ivy degrees are certainly correlated in these non-English countries, where their domestic university educations are not equivalent, and thus put great emphasis on university "prestige".</p>
<p>I'm sure people in technical fields will know. I wasn't suggesting they wouldn't.</p>
<p>We don't know if in 20 years, the OP will still be employed in a technical field. But still, that's not the point.</p>
<p>Maybe immediately upon graduation, he will go to his home university and apply for a job. 4 applicants for one faculty position. The applicants are from:</p>
<p>UCSD
CMU
Michigan
Yale</p>
<p>The Dean of the deparment looks at his roster of faculty (20 profs in total, 12 domestic, 8 foreign), he sees domestic U, then Ohio State, Georgia Tech, maybe UT Austin. He doesn't have Yale represented anywhere. Heck, the entire engineering faculty only has ONE Ivy grad (from Columbia). </p>
<p>I'm saying there's a very good chance Yale will tie-break this. You don't get US Ivy leagues applying for jobs in 2nd and 3rd world countries all the time. I think in those environments, Yale engineering would land him the job. What would make the Dean look more impressive to the greater public or peers? That he hired a Yale grad, or a CMU grad? </p>
<p>Of course, if the CMU had 2-3X more pubs than Yale, then maybe there'll be some discussion. But I don't think you'd pass up an opportunity to hire Yale unless there was a very big reason not to. </p>
<p>You may not understand the mentality of the prestige of English and the US in non-English countries. This is why citizens of these countries send en masse their research to English journals, when their domestic journals are sometimes more appropriate to publish in. All they care about is impact factor (not "fit"). A publication in an IF 3.0 is better than a pub in IF 2.5. Same with university degrees. A Yale engineering grad is "better" than a CMU engineering grad. That's how comparisons are made in their domestic universities.</p>
<p>I think even if the OP decides to stay in the US, he should go to Yale. Who really cares about the specific ranking of the engineering program? Believe me, the people at Yale will be much smarter and more dedicated than those at CMU. Yale is simply a much more prestigious and better university. It's rather absurd to think that just because Purdue is ranked in the top-5 that they actually attract top-5 students. They don't. of course, I consider CMU to be a superior school than Purdue but that's the gist of the argument.</p>
<p>dontno's point is true. When I was at Yale's recruitment weekend (for biology), I noticed that most of the applicants there were interviewing at all the top schools. Obviously these are some of the best qualified applicants in the country. However, if you look at the rankings, Yale ranks somewhere around 10th for biology. So the students at Yale are far more qualified than the students at another 10th place but less well known university, and this can really make a difference in your career.</p>
<p>quality of program + profs vs. students + name? It's not an easy decision, I must say.</p>
<p>Serious? Yale will get the best engineering students simply because its Yale? thats some retarded logic right there. Go compare the average GPAs, GREs, and selectivity of CMU and Yale Engineering and then come back and say that.</p>
<p>As evidence, lets compare their Master's average GRE scores:</p>
<p>Yale:
Average verbal GRE score of new entrants in master's program 522<br>
Average quantitative GRE score of new entrants in master's program 743 </p>
<p>CMU:
Average verbal GRE score of new entrants in master's program 550<br>
Average quantitative GRE score of new entrants in master's program 765 </p>
<p>I think even some of Yale's admits realize this as their yield rate is 38%(for a pitifully small entering class of 38) vs. CMU's yield rate is 51%.</p>
<p>Thanx for the posts, guys. That is exactly what I am thinking.. </p>
<p>In the long run, Yale seems to be a rather convenient option because I believe Yale's "name" will still become something I could use if I were to change jobs to non-technical ones. And I heard the alumni networks of an Ivy League university is pretty strong. Perhaps it would open up some other possibilities which I might not get in an all-out engineering university like CMU. What do you think?</p>
<p>How big is the difference in opportunity of an engineering-related job in US between a Yale graduate and a CMU graduate? Do the engineering/IT companies there prefer CMU graduate that much?</p>
<p>Does the quality of the education in CMU outweigh Yale's "prestige" (for technical job, maybe yes. But for non-technical job, will employers in US prefer a Yale grad over a CMU grad even though they studied exactly the same thing)? =s</p>
<p>You can probably find that out pretty easily. Send the graduate director or secretary an e-mail asking about job placement. Find out their placement rate and where they place people.</p>
<p>My two cents, neither school is not merely a regionally known school. Since they are both nationally known, they are going to be able to place people all over the country and not be limited to a regional pipeline of companies that are nearby and continually draw their graduates. Personally, I think Carnegie Mellon has a much better name for a technical job. When I was looking at grad school I talked to a lot of my dad's coworkers about schools and Carnegie Mellon popped up often. Yale never came up. Yale is an academic powerhouse in the humanities, but much like Harvard (reference to other thread) is not as powerful in engineering fields. Big companies are always hiring and know where to hire. They seek out certain schools that have a track record of putting out competent graduates and year-after-year recruit there. I don't know if this is true or not, but I'd guess CMU's Robotics Institute has a LOT of industrial connections.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Believe me, the people at Yale will be much smarter and more dedicated than those at CMU.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Absolute, absolute bull, when you're talking about this field. Pure foolishness.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does the quality of the education in CMU outweigh Yale's "prestige" (for technical job, maybe yes).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Here's what you need to understand. It's not just a question of "quality of education" vs. "prestige". For robotics and such, CMU <em>is</em> prestige. Its prestige is through the roof.</p>
<p>For a non-technical job, then yeah, it's possible that Yale will do you better for name recognition.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Maybe immediately upon graduation, he will go to his home university and apply for a job...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>...and the people who are hiring him/her for an <em>academic</em> job, of all things, in this or a related field, are going to know CMU, and its significance. Academics tend to know who the stars are in their own field.</p>
<p>
[quote]
How big is the difference in opportunity of an engineering-related job in US between a Yale graduate and a CMU graduate?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, we have both at my intelligent systems research company, and grads of both schools seem to be well-trained. :) More CMU than Yale, though.</p>
<p>Besides, we are all overlooking two HUGE issues here: </p>
<p>1) CMU is a better fit for your research (according to you). Look everywhere else on this board, that is the number 1 piece of advice given for finding the best school for you. Follow your interests.</p>
<p>2) CMU IS FREE! Tuition waiver + stipend vs. paying for Yale as an international student??? </p>
<p>You got into one of the best programs in your field that WILL be well known in the circles you will travel in from now on and they are paying you for it. No contest in my opinion.</p>
<p>Yale has better "dinner party" prestige. You will be able to impress more people who know nothing about your field with a Yale degree, but for those in your field CMU is better. Which sounds more promising for your career?</p>
<p>...and the people who are hiring him/her for an <em>academic</em> job, of all things, in this or a related field, are going to know CMU, and its significance. Academics tend to know who the stars are in their own field.</p>
<br>
<p>So you think the Dean of domestic U of a 3rd world country will turn town an applicant with a graduate degree from Yale? Come again? </p>
<p>You think the world around us operates exactly as the US does? Look outside your window. </p>
<p>Most countries around the world are the size of US STATES. Students in these countries who get admitted to the top school in their country, go to the top school in their country. There are no "East/West divides", or decent "State-U" to attend. It's National-Country-University, and everything below it. When a country is as small as most countries are, the only reason you don't attend the top university is because you weren't admitted to it. There is no "fit", there is no "geographic distance". </p>
<p>Have you ever experienced first-hand the mentality of people who study/teach in these types of countries?</p>
<p>As bluntly as I can state it: People in these countries will see a CMU grad as someone who wasn't good enough to attend Yale. They will see the Yale grad as being more talented than the CMU grad, irregardless of what else they bring to the table. There will be remote exceptions (though for something like Yale/CMU, I can't think of any), but this is the rule.</p>
<p>"As evidence, lets compare their Master's average GRE scores:</p>
<p>Yale:
Average verbal GRE score of new entrants in master's program 522
Average quantitative GRE score of new entrants in master's program 743</p>
<p>CMU:
Average verbal GRE score of new entrants in master's program 550
Average quantitative GRE score of new entrants in master's program 765</p>
<p>I think even some of Yale's admits realize this as their yield rate is 38%(for a pitifully small entering class of 38) vs. CMU's yield rate is 51%."</p>
<p>This is a reasonable argument, but it doesn't necessarily prove talented applicants choose CMU over Yale on the inherent strength of CMU.</p>
<p>Do you know what the financial aid packages were that were given to those students? <em>MAYBE</em> each of those admitted to CMU were given full stipend/RA, whereas those admitted to Yale were all self-pay. You really don't know.</p>
<p>Heck, even in the OP's case, we have an example of someone presenting the same qualifications to both schools. CMU feels they have to throw money at him to make him attend. Yale offers admission, but no money. Why is this? Is it because the OP doesn't rank high enough among the applicants to Yale to get the money? Maybe, maybe not. But it's worth asking.</p>
<p>Maybe it has to do to the fact that Yale reserves funding for PhD applicants where as CMU has funding for both. I doubt he applied to PhD programs at both.</p>