<p>Hi. I've been accepted to CoC for Chem Engineering, but I'm really concerned about my choice of major. I love chemistry, but I struggled a bit in AP Chem. I ended up getting an A and doing well on the AP test, but it took a lot of hard work. I've heard horror stories about how hard CoC is and how it ruins your chances of going to grad school because the curve it so low.
Sooo my concerns are:
I am choosing between UCLA, Berkeley, Northwestern and Carnegie Mellon. I'd prefer to stay in Cali (price + I <3 my parents), so I'm considering UCLA and Berkeley more. Berkeley has a stronger ChemE department, so I'd get a better education, but I'm worried that I will fail miserably.</p>
<p>Wow, I'm rambling. Basically, my questions for anyone who is in CoC or knows anyone in CoC are:
Is it WAY TOO hard? (I want a challenge, but not so much that I will be suicidal).
Is it difficult to get into the classes you want to take?
Can I take non-chem/engineering classes such as business/politics/art?
Are the students/professors friendly and supportive?</p>
<p>–Is it WAY TOO hard? (I want a challenge, but not so much that I will be suicidal).
Generally chemE avg class gpa is C+. About 10%-15% of people get As. There will be semesters where you have to take five engineering/science classes</p>
<p>–Is it difficult to get into the classes you want to take?
You won’t have trouble getting into the required chem /chemE classes (other engineering majors tend to avoid chemE classes for technical electives). It is the engineering support classes (math 1a/1b/53/54, physics 7abc, eng45, ee100) that might take some fighting to get into, since those classes are also required for other engineering majors. </p>
<p>–Can I take non-chem/engineering classes such as business/politics/art?
The chemE curriculum requires so many technical classes that the GE requirement for chemE is very watered down compared to other majors (one writing class and 3 social science classes. Which means that you very little leeway when it comes to taking classes for enjoyment. </p>
<p>—Are the students/professors friendly and supportive?
The classes are huge, even for upper division classes. Lower division chem classes have 800+ students. Upper division chem classes have at least 200 students. Even upper div chemE classes have 100 students. To the profs, most students are just student ID numbers. The professors are friendly to you if you are an A student. In lab classes, protect your experiment setup, cuz some of your classmates are ready sabotage it. The “study groups” that some of the students form are just homeworking copying sessions. As only 15% of students get As, your classmates might be less than civil to you.</p>
<p>@chemebrown: If I have a lot of AP credits for history and English, would I then be able to take more interesting classes? Or will I have to retake English (bleh) ?</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, by the way. It’s helpful getting honest opinions (:
As of now I’m really regretting applying to CoC. Ugh.</p>
<p>i would half-assedly disagree about getting into math 1a/b, 53/54. Usually you can get in just b/c profs know a lot of students need to take it…but with the budget cuts, everything could change =</p>
<p>^ manzagal3 it’s not like you’re stuck in CoC.
When you go to your calso, they ask people if anyone wants to switch out. And if you want you can switch to L&S right on the spot.</p>
<p>I am actually really concerned about the competition at Cal, too. I visited UCLA’s open house this weekend and had a chance to talk to a grad student in chemE who did her undergrad at Cal. She said that she totally notices a difference in student behavior. According to her, the curriculum difficulty is more or less the same, but students at UCLA are more laid back and not hardcore crazy studiers like at Cal…she recalled how she would need to study for hours over the weekend during her undergrad years. Not fun. )= I keep imagining a bunch of nerdy guys with bad skin at Berkeley…chemE at LA has girls who look normal/pretty. (I am female. I still care about how other females look. If they look horrible, I might think that they focus all their attention on studying and not other things, like life/friends.)
There was this one male grad student at UCLA who looked really hot…</p>
<p>Still might dive into Cal, just because it’s closer to home and 20+ of my friends are going there. I guess there’s also the slight prestige it has over UCLA too, but really…I don’t care much for that if it will kill my GPA. ;__; I want to go to grad school. Though that grad student at UCLA said that getting undergrad research is easier at Cal…I really don’t know where I’m going. I’ll wait for Cal Day. </p>
<p>btw…switching from bioE to chemE at Cal shouldn’t be too difficult, right? I looked at their freshman classes, and they are exactly the same for first semester, aside from the bioE/chemE 1 unit freshman seminar. Will I be allowed to take a seminar that is not tailored to my listed major?</p>
<p>No words can describe the difficulty of the berkeley chemE program. So here is what you should do to test the water:</p>
<p>Take Chem4A. If you get lower than a B, seriously consider switching to another major.
After getting at least a B in Chem4A, take Chem4B. You must get at least an A- in Chem4B. If not, it means you will have trouble getting anything higher than Bs in upper div chemE classes ( all chemE classes are upper division).</p>
<p>Are all the CoC majors that difficult or is it just ChemE? I’m considering Chemistry but if it’s anything like ChemE then it sounds really really scary >.<</p>
<p>First year, take chem 4AB. If you struggle mightly, consider switching to major. If you can eke out an A- one of those classes, then …</p>
<p>Second year, take chem 112A/112B, the organic chem series. Both classes rely heavily on brute-force memorization. On the exams, you are constantly asked how to devise steps necessary to produce a final chemical from some base chemicals. Sounds easy? Consider that there 1000+ chemicals that will have been covered by 112B. If you get A-/B+ in chem 112A/B, then …</p>
<p>Third year, take chem 120A/120B, the physical chem series. It is quantum mechanics, statistical mechanics, a lot of weird math, triple integration, partial differential equations, linear algebra. If you idolize einstein, you might like those classes. If you get A- avg here… go to grad school.</p>
<p>Organic chemistry requires a lot of memorization, but there is meaning behind the madness. You can’t do well without memorizing, but the people who only brute force memorize historically are not that good of students. You’ll need the principles you learn in organic chemistry for your more advanced classes later. From organic chemistry, you’ll learn the principles of synthesis (making molecules)</p>
<p>Physical chemistry can seem fairly complex. As the name implies, it requires a lot of physics and math applied to chemical systems. It can be heavy on the physics and applied math. Historically, physical chemistry is the most difficult, and by the time you reach it, it will be too late to change majors, but it won’t be the end of the world. You’ll learn the principles of measuring chemical systems (measuring molecules).</p>
<p>Inorganic chemistry is similar to organic chemistry, but much more complex. Organic chemistry is based around Carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, sulfur, halogens, and phosphorus. You’ll typically be dealing with 4 bonds in organic chem - it’s straightforward. Inorganic chemistry is based on all the molecules in the periodic table. There are many bonding possibilities and chemical rules are more frequently broken in i-chem. You’ll also need to blend some ideas from physical chemistry to understand the craziness in i-chem. You’ll learn more about the principles of complex synthesis.</p>
<p>If you struggle with the intro courses, I would consider looking at another major - it only gets exponentially more difficult. If you do well in classes, it does not guarantee that you will get into a name-brand graduate school. Chemistry majors must do research in order to get into graduate school - there is no if, and, or buts around this issue. Doing meaningful research is the key to getting into graduate school, and you must do research while keeping up decent grades. If your grades are on the low side (<3.3-3.4), your research must be incredible. If your grades are on the high side, your research must still be damn good. Your chances to get into any reputable graduate school with a GPA less than 3.0 are extremely slim (~0%).</p>
<p>One of your greatest assets now is that you have access to some of the very best research opportunities. I would suggest you look into it.</p>
<p>ChemE typically requires less research. Chemistry and ChemE are different, but both can be difficult.</p>
<p>How about this question…I’m not sure if you can answer, but here goes…</p>
<p>If I go to Cal and fail out of chemE, would there have been a possibility that it wouldn’t have happened had I gone to UCLA? </p>
<p>Or is the curriculum difficulty and grading more or less the same, and I will do basically the same at either university? </p>
<p>Seriously, my nearly my whole life I’ve wanted to do sciences; since high school I’ve been set for engineering. Should I really risk going to Cal if it will crush my dreams with no means of recovery…</p>
<p>This isn’t a hard question, and I think you could answer it if you think about it.</p>
<p>Even if Cal is a lot harder than UCLA in chem E (not necessarily true), it isn’t like some people who failed out of Cal would be superstars at UCLA. Good students will do well no matter what undergraduate school they go to. Poor students will do poorly no matter what undergraduate school they go to. The only difference is that a poor student in UCLA might do poorer in Cal, but the world (or the people that should know) knows about this and they’ll adjust your academic scores based on your curriculum.</p>
<p>You’ll soon learn that the differences between undergraduate curriculum tend to be very small, and people make the biggest fusses over very minute details that don’t really matter. Smart, hard working people are everywhere. Stupid, lazy people are everywhere.</p>
<p>There’s one point I glossed over, though: it’s how you, yourself, deal with adversity. If you don’t think you can handle adversity well, you probably shouldn’t go to one of the more competitive programs. However, I’d argue that if you can’t handle adversity well, you should probably consider a stress-free + easy job. These kind of jobs don’t require a “UCLA” or “UCB” degree.</p>
<p>If you want to have a high reward kind of job, you’re going to have to deal with adversity and a lot of pressure. I’d suggest you go to the most competitive program so you have the best shot at learning to deal with adversity. However, you also have the option of gradually easing yourself into a competitive environment if you think you aren’t ready just yet, but you want to be ready later (signing up for 3 classes instead of 6 classes). This kind of stuff you have complete control over.</p>
<p>If you fail at Cal, chances are high that you won’t do well in UCLA either.</p>
<p>Is it true that the classes at CoC are smaller than the ones offered by L&S?
So the same science courses offered by the CoC that overlap with those offered by Letters and Science are only offered to the students within THAT college? As a CoC student, would I be able to take whichever L&S class I want?</p>
<p>I’m guessing some (or all?) of the CoC classes are only available to CoC students?</p>
<p>@ blueducky
It depends on what classes you take. Some classes might be smaller, while others might be larger; and you can take courses in other college (meaning that your courses aren’t limited only to CoC.)</p>
<p>@OP
I went to UCLA for undergrad and Cal for grad (but it’s not for Chemical Engineering). I have to say that the overall atmosphere in Cal is more competitive and fierce than that of UCLA. At UCLA, it seems like everything was just easier a notch, the atmosphere is simply just more lively and spirited. At Cal, you walk onto campus in the middle of a weekday, and you can see most people studying.
But they are both great schools, and I think most employers don’t care where you go, they care more about what you do in college. If you think you can get top-notch grades at UCLA, and due to the less competition - you can take more career-oriented courses or internships, and also taking a few leadership positions, then I think that will land you a better job than if you went to Cal and struggled there.</p>
<p>As a student in the CoC, your lower-division courses can get big, but you will never be in a chemistry course with 800+ students. For example, Chem 4B had 180 students and Chem 112B had 107 students this semester. (See: schedule.berkeley.edu). I believe that chemebrown’s confusion arises from the fact that CoC students used to take Chem 1A and 1B. However, CoC students now take Chem 4A and 4B instead of 1A and 1B.</p>
<p>Additionally, upper-division CoC courses (i.e., courses in the 100-series) are typically not too large, as can be seen on schedule.berkeley.edu. To get a feel for the typically sizes of CoC courses, simply go to schedule.berkeley.edu, click the ‘Spring 2009’ semester, and enter ‘Chem’ into the ‘Department Abbreviation’ box. To check courses in the chemical engineering department, enter ‘Chem Eng’ instead of ‘Chem’.</p>
<p>Do not listen to rumors about classmates sabotaging your experiments. Most people at Berkeley are friendly, and I have yet to meet anyone who would think of hurting someone else’s experiment.</p>
<p>Also, to see the average grades given out in courses, I suggest the following links:</p>