<p>I've never posted here before, but I've read a lot of threads and decided to join so I could ask for some advice myself. I am just ending my junior year of high school and I'm planning on applying to colleges this summer / fall for early decision and other programs. I want to be a musical theater major. The only problem is that I'm not sure I can get into the prestigious colleges like NYU and Carnegie Mellon with my grades. I have many impressive theater credits, have been taking voice lessons for years, and have many, many recommendations from various theater and music instructors, as well as school and community directors I've worked with. </p>
<p>My problem is that I screwed around the first two years of high school before realizing that it probably wasn't the smartest thing ever and that I'd now messed up my chances at a good school. My cumulative GPA now hovers around 2.6-2.7, which isn't good enough for many schools. Do a lot of the good musical theater programs pay much attention to grades? I've heard they look mostly at the SATs, which I am going to take this fall and am confident I can score high in, considering I'm going to be spending my summer studying for them. I'm just really scared that whatever potential I may have talent-wise may be overshadowed by my freshman/sophomore foolishness.</p>
<p>I'm also looking for more good MT programs, as a side note; I'd really like to go somewhere on the east coast. I'd also look into schools overseas, if anyone knows of any.</p>
<p>And finally, I'd like to know if there are any good scholarships I could apply for. Any scholarships. I'd like them to be used for any school, but any scholarships having to do with vocal (MT and opera), acting, and even writing (essays and creative), as English is a strong point of mine.</p>
<p>Please help! I'm very scared about my future, but I know I have to do this. If I don't go after what I love, I'll spend my entire life wondering 'what if,' and that's the worst thing I can do to myself.</p>
<p>AMDA is the "training after high school" equal to a "trade school" they have virtually no faculty that are there from year to year on a steady basis. They offer no actual degree - they have an agreement with the new school = but this is roughly the equal to having to transfering to another school. I believe in mentorship - having people that care and look out for your training as well as your personal developement - so AMDA is not high on my list of options. Having said that, I know a few people who got at least part of their training at AMDA - and they are great performing artists - any school or training program often breaks down to the individual student taking (and sometimes making their own) advantage of what is offered to them.</p>
<p>On your initial question - if I am reading it right - you got your act together this year with grades - if that is so, and you continue to do well - it might confort you to know that a lot of schools look hardest at your junior year grades. Are your SAT/ACT scores OK = if so you should be able to get into many colleges despite the off-the-beam grades from your first two years!</p>
<p>Each school is different in terms of how they weigh your academics, audition, etc... Some BFA programs do not give your grades much weight in the decision making process, looking mostly at your audition (I believe that CMU, and BoCo are in that catagory), other schools require you to get into the school academically, sometimes before they will even see you audition (I believe that UMich, and Baldwin-Wallace are in that catagory). I would suggest looking at each of the school in which you are interested, and finding out the policy of each specific program.</p>
<p>Many of the schools that weigh the audition most strongly are also some of the most competitive schools to get into. The common wisdom is that each student should have a cross section of schools on his/ her list. No school where an audition is required can ever truly be called a safety. I would suggest putting together a list of schools (at all of which you think you could ultimately be happy) including some schools that you are certain you can get into academically, some smaller auditioned BFA or BA programs that you believe you can get into academcially and believe you will have a strong shot at in terms of the audition; larger programs that may be more of a reach (this is not a comment on your talent. The "top" BFA schools are reaches for everyone).</p>
<p>This board is a great resource. Check out the schools at the top of the page, also put other schools in which you are interested into the search function, there are discussion threads on schools that are not listed at the top of the page.)</p>
<p>When i went to my Syracuse audition, i was told in the audition room that i had been accepted...Syracuse does this with some other people too (however i know people who were acccepted but found out months later from a phone call) as far as i know there is a slim chance that they knew my GPA... I had a 3.3...DEFINATLY way lower than Syracuse U.'s average GPA of 3.6.</p>
<p>So i guess im saying look at Syracuse?</p>
<p>What is the idea behind telling kids in the audition room? has anyone else heard of that? Is it for an honest reaction?</p>
<p>Also, some schools (ex Hartt) ask you to put GPA and SAT on your audition form when you audition.</p>
<p>Some schools ask for a copy of your transcript when you audition. These schools would most likely be the schools where they will weigh you academics on a fairly equal footing with the audition. There are schools that will weigh your academics on equal footing with the auditon that do not ask for your transcript at the audition, but if a school does, it is a pretty good indication of how they consider academics.</p>
<p>Around here, kids that are Valedectorians of their private school classes AND that had the theatre and voice credits too couldn't make it into Carnegie Mellon! It seems this year was extremely competitive. Kids with 3.0 GPAS, amazing voices and attending the performing arts HS will be attending state colleges. It's a fact that the grades count and there are so many well qualified applicants now that it is the school who is in the "driver's seat". Even the boys, who are traditionally in high demand,who ave all of the other things going for them , will be trudging off to small state colleges- it was the GPA that came back and bit them.
As for scholarships, honey, I don't intend to be mean, but you need to take some responsiblilty and look for these things yourself. Notice that no one has addressed that issue with you? You have already taken the first step, by getting on the computer- hit the search engines and start looking. There are talent based scholarships that schools award, and ones awarded by private foundations, so if you have the talent, search out the ones that don't include grades as a requirement and get your applications in as BEFORE the deadlines. Follow the directions exactly, as if things aren't submitted properly, they will usually get tossed out. Even in small cities, places like law firms give out thousand dollar grants to as many as 100 students and every bit helps! Listen to local radio stations, look in the papers (there is a firm here that advertises heavily here every spring).
MT is a VERY competitive field and NOW is the time for you to take command of your life and do things for yourself. You will learn if you have what it takes to succeed and be all the more prepared for the career you have chosen.
BTW- is there ANYTHING you can do to pull that GPA up? Go talk to your Guidance Counselor or the head of the vocal or theatre departments in your school, because a 2.6 IS going to have a big effect on where you can apply, much less where you are accepted. Another option might be to attend a college that is less than your ideal for a year or two and then see if you have the qualifactions to transfer. Go get help from the right people in your school and pull those grades UP! Good SAT scores are a big help, but schools want to know that you have what it takes to "stay the course" and most want more than an applicant with poor grades who tests well. As I said, I have seen a big shift in acceptances over the past two years and you need to make yourself as attractive to admissions directors as you possible can.
Go to it and Good Luck!</p>
<p>Most schools have fairly defintive cut-off points and with a great majority, it doesn't matter how talented you are. They won't "pull strings" for a low GPA even if they used tom because there are many more applicants than places and they have no problem filling them. That's why I suggested that she think about transferring after a year or two. There are several threads about that on the board now, I think- worth considering. At least then, you have a chance to prove yourself in a new surrounding (college) and the admissions people are more willing to look past (not "0verlook") the low high school GPA.</p>
<p>There are soooo many super talented kids with very high GPA's who have been "all that" and are STILL rejected from many BFA programs. In fact MOSt of the kids we know who were accepted this year had 3.65's or higher. I tell kids every day who say to me that they have the talent and that grades do not really matter that that may have been true in the past?? but statistics show that this year has been one of the most difficult and competitive in Most fields to get into college and that they say that it is going to continue to be difficult for the next 3 years..not AS difficult as this one but unusually competitive. Even the kids that we know that got into the supposedly more "lax about grades and focused on talent" places took kids that had extremely high GPA's. Now I know that a GPA at one school does not compare with another school's offerings but the number is still looked at hard. I shudder at the idea of trying to compete with the talent I have seen this year with a lower GPA. I am sorry to say this but it is what I have noted. Do everything in your power to bring up those grades and to take AP's.</p>
<p>Just had another thought- if you have the ability, could you possibly take some courses at your local community college while you are finishing high school? Usually this demands excellent HS grades, but if you are really trying to turn things around, perhaps you Guidance Counselor could assist you with this? Or take a course in a summer session; ANYTHING to pull up your GPA. Also, try to 'diversify" a bit and see if you can get onto the yearbook or newspaper staff since you like writing (maybe review shows for the local paper- anything to make yourlself stand out and look well-rounded). It has been so heartrending to watch 2 very, very talented young people that I know well have such a different ending to their dreams this year. One girl, Valedectorian of the senior class(difficult, private, girls' school), top grades, leads in every school production and a terrific voice,not to mention a bag full of awards and AP classes- gets in to one of the "least favorite" studios at NYU, that was it ( was accepted at one other school for an academic major); the other, a young man with the most commanding stage prescence, fantastic voice for both MT and VP, wonderful actor and the lead in everything from musicals to Shakespeare to expreimental theatre, but a mediocre GPA due to fooling around the first 2 years of HS, accepted at only ONE state school and that for voice only. This year was the worst anyone's seen and I don't envision it leveling out for another couple of years, just as
MHAPPINESS said. Thankfully, my D started early, in 9th grade, and will be a rising junior and has been competing (and winning) while maintaining a very high GPA in Honors and AP classes and performing in community theatres as well as school productions and elite choir. She's been noticed by some very important people and given some nice promises, but until that acceptance envelope is in her hands, she's not going to rest on her laurels- there is work to be done, and while we may not be happy with the way these kids have to work at this age (She is literally gone for 14-15 hours/day with school and rehearsals/performances), it's a rough field and if it's truly THEIR choice, they'll fit in homework while someone else's scenes are beoing workef or go in early to make-up a test missed due to a laryngologist appointment!</p>
<p>The OP's quandry is that he/she is now completing the junior year. There is little time to "improve gpa". The OP should focus on finishing the year with the best grades possible and making sure that he/she selects classes for next year that do not appear to be senior year "slacking off" or that are even a little more challenging, though suddenly jumping into honors/AP courses in the senior year without an appropriate foundation could be a grade disaster. This should be thought through carefully. Also, getting the absolute best grades possible 1st semester senior year is important.</p>
<p>Equally important is to be smart about the schools you select to apply to. Not withstanding the accuracy of many of the above comments, the reality is that there are schools that weigh talent more heavily than grades and/or have a lower benchmark for grades than other schools or for their performing arts programs than their other departments. In addition, schools that have rolling admissions can offer an opportunity if you apply and audition early on before 800 other students have been seen. That way if the school likes you in absolute terms, you have a better chance of being accepted before you are looked at in relative terms.</p>
<p>So continue with the academic focus you developed in your junior year and research schools carefully. Call the theatre departments and inquire about the factors used in accepting students. Ask about the weight given to grades and what the average GPA and SAT scores have been for students admitted to the MT programs. Ask the admissions office the same questions. Look for schools with rolling admissions. Pick up a college guide to performing arts schools (Peterson's has one) that describes admissions proceedures. Do the research so that you can make informed decisions about where to apply and most effectively commit your audition time.</p>
<p>My non-MT S messed up his sophomore year of HS, staying up all night playing computer games. Even after we found out and confiscated his internet cable, he got one from a friend, and continued to play. He recieved a D in English (which is one of his strongest subjects.When he finally decided Junior Year, that oops...I shouln't have done that he had to work very hard to undo some of the damage. He was not looking for a fiercly competative program like MT, but had set his sights on U of Oregon. He talked to his guidance counselor who suggested he retake the English class to raise his GPA.
During his senior year he had to retake Sophomore English- he did it at a private one on one high school that provides education to athletes and such. This was on top of finally maintianing a good GPA in all his other classes.
When he applied to school, he had to write a supplemental esssay explaing why his GPA was not up to their standard. He wrote a well written and honest essay stating that he wished there were a name for the disease that had kept him from doing his best early in his HS career, but that he could only atribute it to immaturity and lack of discipline.
By retaking that one class, and by doing well in his classes 2nd semester junior year, and all of senior year; he was accepted into his dream school where he is now in his third year. His overall HS GPA went from a 2.6 to a 3.2 overall. And now in college he continues to get good grades.
The point of ths story is, that you can turn yourself around if you have fierce determination. There are schools that do give good training that are not major MT schools. And some of the schools on the Big List will not care as much about GPA as others. Take some time to research every school that sounds of interest to you. Work your fanny off...and call admissions at various schools and see what you can do to mitigate your past mistakes. If you don't think you can get into the well known schools, look at ones that are off the radar. One I might suggest for you is Marietta College in Marietta Ohio. The weakest part of the school is the dance department, but we were impressed with the vocal faculty, and the intimate feel of the theatre department. They do many musicals a year, the campus is extremely beautiful. They are less competative for admittance for both academics and the MT program. And they are generous with scholarship money.
As for other scholarships...look on the internet. There are obscure ones out there, just looking for kids who fit the criteria. Look at Fastweb for lists of scholarships. You never know what obscure one you might qualify for.
And do look at taking some college level courses, and/or retaking some of the classes you did poorly in, if possible. It was a tremendous amount of work and especially if you are trying to do auditions at the same time, but maybe you could retake some class this summer through your HS summer school.
Good luck! If all the work doesn't pan out, and you don't get admitted, you will still be better prepared to reaudition and reapply the following year. And you will feel a huge sense of accomplishment in turning your grades around.</p>
<p>Good advice- It seems like several of us thought she was a soph not a junior and you're are correct about the AP courses, as those usually have strict prereqs.for enrollment also.
There are many state schools that have very good MT departments and are not as rigid about the GPA if the talent and audition really shine, so I'd suggest that route as a really viable one. And do look at the threads about transferring, as you may be able to end up at the school you REALLY want with a year of good grades and showing hard work in college.
I can't believe how many scholarships go "unawarded" (is that even a WORD?!), so I'm sure if she looks hard enough, there will be something there. Gather all the info regarding your family that you can (back through grandparents) as nationalities, jobs,etc can figure into awards from various sources. I even saw one for kids that are left-handed! It's a lot easier now that the internet puts the resources at one's fingertips!</p>
<p>State Schools and GPA... There are a lot of state schools with very good musical theatre programs... some of these state schools also require a high GPA for admittance. It is important to check the admissions requirements of the school itself, and to find out what the policy is for weighing academics in the department (in relationship to the audition). This is true of both state schools and private colleges.</p>
<p>KatMT's comments are well taken. State v. private college in of itself is not a reliable determinator of the weight given to grades. You really have to check with each school. As an illustration, Carnegie Mellon is regarded as a top flight university. However, when it comes to the MT program, the audition is weighted 80% (at a minimum) and the level of acceptable academics is significantly relaxed as compared to its other programs (CMU presents a whole host of other issues that make it a statistical long shot - like a 1000 auditions for 10 spots, so just take this for illustration purposes on the "grades" issue). In contrast, Penn State has a well regarded MT program but my understanding is that you need strong grades to be accepted academically to attend University Park Main Campus and that's where the MT program is resident.</p>
<p>State Schools do vary widely with regard to quality of program and GPA/Audition weighting; in fact, they can vary within the state system itself. I am just using the state in which I live for the information I have stated. Also. some of the "conservatory- style" schools often weight the audition more heavily, but again, it depends on their program and how you fit into it. They may have far too many female applicants vs. male ( usually the case anyway!) and thus, you may not get in. Even if you get everything in early or apply Early Decision/Early Action and turn in a spectacular audition, you may well get placed on the waiting list if you have a low GPA as they can and do prefer to fill the spots with kids that have a "better looking all around package". Simple logic- more applicants than places so the schools can be more particular.
Also, with regard to Carnegie Mellon- I have to respectfully disagree about the statement that the "audition is weighted at 80%(you actually said 90% in another post I found on here) and then the level of acceptable academics is significantly relaxed compared to other programs". That has not been the case there in the past and it wasn't the case there this year. One is admitted to the college FIRST and then one chooses a major and if it is one that requires an audition, that process begins, so it is possible to be #1 in your class, apply to CMU,get admitted and then not make the audition cut. This comes straight from the Director of the Guidance Dept. at my D's prep school, and was the case for the Valedectorian of this year's class.We have also discuss this with a CMU Drama major graduate and he said the same thing, academic admission comes first. There have been numerous threads on this Board and others about this topic and this particular school.; kids with 3.5 averages were not being admitted or placed on waiting lists if performance criteria was approx. equal.There is another Board with a student section where kids are crying about this very topic and school right now.
I don't want to argue about this, truly I don't, but anyone who has been through the process this year, teaches or counsels students or has close friends who have been a part of it this year know that there has been a dramatic shift and many very talented kids have either been rejected outright or had to choose a school farther down on their "list". If one has not done the best they could in high school, attempting to apply to one of the top-flight schools may not be the best move for many reasons(that was also talked about when taking AP classes was mentioned). They are at the top because they demand a standard of excellence that may be beyond the capabilities of someone who has had to struggle in high school- it's important to find a college that values your type of learning-style and that makes it a "good fit". A choreographer who now teaches at a well-known college MT program told me that he is ditressed to see so many schools adding MT programs as they obviously can not all be of the higher level, but that the school consider them (his words here, NOT mine) "cash cows" as kids want the programs and families WILL pay or do whatever is necessary to get their offspring in. The result of this proliferation has yet to be seen....
Remember, one can "regroup" and then transfer or audition again the next year if they show that they can handle the requirements that school demands. I don't like it any more than others, but that's the way it is.</p>
<p>When my daughter visited and auditioned at CMU this year, the info I posted was what was specifically told to us by the head of the department and admissions counselors at the meetings. In fact, they made it clear that while "80%" is the acknowledged weight given to the audition that at times it can be as high as 90%. In addition, the question was asked whether "C's" on h.s. transcripts were the kiss of death and the response was that CMU does not expect the same gpa for its theatre program as its others because what they are looking at is talent, just like they wouldn't expect an engineering student to be able to sing. Their words, not mine.</p>
<p>MichaelNKat, we have two family friends who auditioned at and were accepted by CMU this year and they were told the same thing you were. It has been that way at CMU for many years, including back when my D and her friends were auditioning at many of the schools discussed here. The audition has always carried a far greater weight than the academics, and the 90% figure was also used as far back as five years ago. I have never heard of CMU using the 'getting accepted academically first' system in their admissions process. I do not think that this is the case.</p>