B grade is not really “struggling”. But if she gets stressed and anxious easily, pop quizzes seem tailor made to trigger that and cause her to lose confidence in her ability to do math. Are the pop quizzes something specific to this course or teacher, or are they common in other math courses at the high school?
In the end, the math choice should really be based on how ready she is for calculus (one of the AP courses) or whether she needs more reinforcement and review of precalculus material (the non-AP calculus course that appears to be mostly that). The previously-linked “are you ready for … ?” quizzes can help her determine that.
If she does need more reinforcement and review of precalculus material, and it is too much to review on her own, she may want to take that non-AP calculus course so that she will have more solid knowledge of precalculus material when she takes calculus in college if she majors in business or something else that needs it.
@ucbalumnus I agree with you. I think the regular calc is the most appropriate choice. She has shown that she has challenged herself in all the other subjects so I think it’s fine. She isn’t aiming for a an Ivy. I feel bad that she can’t just take whatever she wants, but rather has to take classes to impress the admissions people. As I told my husband, it’s a game and we have to play the game. It’s just what it is. Oh, and all the math classes so far have those pop quizzes.
To sum up the thread, I will tell her she should take Calc instead of AP Comp Sci and she should take AP Env Sci instead of AP psych. She can always take psych in college where it will probably be more interesting.
Seems odd that the course with a description suggesting that it is mostly precalculus with a small introduction to calculus would be titled “calculus” rather than “precalculus with introduction to calculus”.
Or maybe not. Perhaps the school wants to be able to claim that “all” or some high percentage of students take “calculus”, so titling that course as “calculus” can help it in marketing itself as a “better” school. It may also avoid awkward questions about why some students skip that course and go directly to AP calculus but others take another year of precalculus. But such marketing may be a negative point for students who are less confident in math and may not feel that they are ready for “calculus” yet.
@ucbalumnus Good points.On the other hand, I notice that all the course descriptions on the school’s website aren’t exactly accurate based on the classes she’s already taken so who knows what it will really be like.
@citymama9 . Yes, part of the course selection is to ‘look good ‘ to admissions people, but if she plans to study business in college it will help her tremendously to have had some Calc prior to college.
You need to check graduation requirements for math. Assuming thats ok what other classes is she taking? What will the workload be? Then check out school websites you might be interested in or naviance. They list recommended courses for acceptance.
"@thelonliestmonk Here’s a description of the regular calculus class:
Calculus – This course includes an overview of analytic geometry and trigonometry as it applies to the study of functions, graph limits, derivatives and their applications"
As ucbalumnus pointed out this basically pre-calc with some calculus later in the course. It’s a good class and follows the sequence so it’s probably right for your daughter having taken algebra 2/trig.
“I would not make a blanket statement about non-AP calc being watered down.”
The issue is how it’s perceived by adcoms, as others have pointed out the class should have been called pre-calculus in which case the adcoms know the rigor. Adcoms only know AP calculus so to see other versions of it would make them think it’s not AP and possibly watered down.
They won’t assume a regular calc class is watered down and should really be called precalc. Not their job. Theu do know more than “AP.” It would be very rare for an actual course description on the School Report.
My bet is they see calc and say, good, she continued with core math, even as s non-stem kid.
Imo, a lot more is being made of this choice than it needs.
As for ES, what many colleges ask for is 3-4 years of "lab science. " May want to check what her possible targets say.
But as I said earlier, be sure she’s not overloaded by the numbet of AP.
^^^Again it depends entirely on the HS (which is why I said a blanket statement about every non-AP calc class at every HS is not a good idea)… I know at our public HS honors calc is quite rigorous – my D took it instead of AP Calc due to a scheduling issue and the fact that she had honors calc rather than AP calc had zero impact on her college admissions (she got into her her top choice which was a bit of a reach). My D was looking at very good but not Ivy level schools, but the OP has stated that her D is in that same boat. It is important to factor the colleges the OP’s D plans to apply to in this equation.
I think with an otherwise rigorous schedule the OP’s D is fine to take a non-AP in what is a weaker academic area for her. Admissions officers look at the entire schedule not just one class. I think the OP and her D are taking a balanced approach to her schedule which IMO is a better path as compared to getting caught up in the AP race. The worst thing that could happen woudl be to overload the schedule and not perform well senior year.
But instead of us guessing, I would again suggest that the OP’s daughter discuss the choice with 1) her guidance counselor to see how her overall planned schedule would be viewed by the colleges she plans to apply to and 2) with her current math teacher to get a sense of what course that teacher feels would be most appropriate given her current performance in math and the rest of her projected senior year schedule.
I’m glad you decided to go with the regular calc class, that everyone is saying sounds like precalc. Having a solid foundation is critical in math, and if she has to take calc in college for some reason, it sounds like your D wouldn’t have a good enough foundation without this class and would really struggle. I also wanted to say that while we all want to show rigor (AP), if your kid ends up bombing the more rigorous class or ends up having a miserable Senior year because of the class, more harm than good has been done.
“Thanks so much. I know psych is a social sci so it had me concerned. I was thinking of having her email the admissions reps at her 3 favorite schools to see what they think. I’m not sure if that’s appropriate or not.”
That’s definitely appropriate, that’s why the admissions offices have a staff, to answer questions on the process. Now some questions they won’t answer (like should I retake the SATs) but most they’ll try and help on. I talked to a few and all were helpful. I actually think Math is not the concern now, you should verify the science, as AP Psych and AP ES may not be accepted as a lab or college-prep science class (lookingforward mentioned this as well). If she wanted to take AP Physics, maybe the regular Physics class could work. So one less AP as well.
Also you can call the offices using a thing called a phone!
Typically AP Psychology does not have a lab component and therefore is not counted as a science by colleges. But it is certainly OK to ask admission officers.
Just want to mention that it’s important that your child contact the school, not you. Besides looking like an adult, this also puts a check mark in the demonstrated interest column.
Perhaps another reason why the high school misnames the course as “calculus” rather than “precalculus with introduction to calculus” could be the perception among students and parents that calculus in high school is required for admission to more selective colleges, even though very few colleges state on their web sites that it is required or recommended.
Indeed, if a college actually does have calculus as an unstated admission requirement, perhaps it may also be a way of fooling those colleges if they do not look too closely at the content of the course when they see “calculus” on the student’s academic record.
@theloniusmonk Thanks! D has already taken Bio and Chem, and is currently taking Physics. All with labs. I believe AP Psych and AP ES have labs too. I will definitley have her ask about these choices. So far she’s gotten A’s in all her sci classes. She’s surprisingly good at sci, but I don’t think AP physics is necessary for someone who will never major in a STEM.As someone above said, I don’t want her over do it and mess up Senior yr.
APES is a science class and it’s more rigorous than a regular college prep science class. Since she had all three of Bio, chem, physics, and doesn’t intend on being a stem major, it’s a perfectly fine choice for her. Most selective colleges want 4 Years of science but only 3 lab science. The 4ty pen can be astronomy, earth science, etc.
However to the best of my knowledge AP psychology is considered a social science.
APES is still not considered a harder course, comparatively.
Adding, CB says this about APES: “Yes. You should spend a minimum of one class period per week, or the equivalent, engaged in lab or field work.” My kiddo’s had field work only- each kid independently collecting various botanical samples, labeling, etc.
Contrast that to, eg, AP chem: “A minimum of 16 hands-on labs constituting a minimum of 25 percent of instructional time. At least six of the labs must be guided inquiry.”
But I don’t disagree that it’s an option after 3 years of bio, chem and physics.