Help deciding between Stanford, Brown, Yale, and Princeton (Early Admission)

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
1

<p>Hi all, </p>

<p>I'm new here and figured I might as well try my luck seeing what others’ opinions are on my situation. I would especially really appreciate any advice given by alums or undergraduates of the schools that I'm debating between. First, let me tell you what they are:</p>

<p>Tied for 1st & 2nd spot: Stanford and Brown</p>

<p>Really close tie for 3rd & 4th spot: Yale and Princeton</p>

<p>I’m basing these choices on the feel I got visiting campuses and the classes and programs the schools offer, among other things. I have a little bit of time now, and I'm slightly strung out deciding which school I want to apply early to. I also want to consider which schools I’d have a better shot at, since they are all so close and I would be thrilled to get into any of them.</p>

<p>For those of you willing to read, let me go a bit more in-depth regarding my circumstances. Beginning at the end of sophomore year lasting until the middle of junior year, I developed an autonomic neuropathy. Things that were supposed to work automatically, like heart rate, blood pressure, circadian rhythm, and digestion, didn't work. I had constant pain, couldn’t sleep except for every 4th night for a few hours, and could not attend school, though I kept working on a few classes at home. As this came on, my grades slid to B's and C's. </p>

<p>However, as things started improve, I kicked some butt getting back into school the second half of my junior year. I took challenging courses and have been getting straight A's since being sick. I got a 5 on the AP Euro test, took 4 classes over the summer to finish catching up (including two from our local state college, North Dakota State University), and volunteered at our U.S. Representative’s office and at a pharmacy lab doing research on colon cancer. I got a 32 on the ACT, low 700s on the SAT sections, and will take three SAT subject tests in October (I know these scores aren’t as good as some I’ve seen posted here, but they are good for my area and school). I am taking 4 AP's now (senior year) in addition to music and language. I feel I've challenged myself based on what my school has to offer and come out strong. I’m also heavily involved in music activities, both at school and in my community. </p>

<p>Now back to the main goal, colleges. I love both Stanford and Brown, but really like Yale and Princeton too. Stanford and Brown are essentially even, followed closely by a tie between Yale and Princeton. I am just slightly more inclined towards Stanford, but I have a sister at Brown and another sister at Yale (might help admissions). </p>

<p>I am interested in Business, Entrepreneurship, Engineering, and Politics. But really, I have no idea. It’s important to me that the school I go to has a wide variety of opportunities open to me, so that I can experiment until I’m sure of my major. I really want to go to a school where the professors actively engage students, there are many class discussions, and I could go out to coffee and talk over material with a professor. Additionally, I hope to join a fencing and rowing club and play water polo. </p>

<p>I would be so appreciative if any of you guys would give your two cents on this, especially if you’ve attended any of these schools. In deciding where to apply early and have the best chances, I can use all the help I can get.</p>

2

<p>^Princeton has no early admission program at all. Brown has binding early decision, and Stanford and Yale are both restricted early action, which means they are not binding, but you can’t also apply elsewhere under other early admissions programs, with very few exceptions.</p>

3

<p>Let me answer your question from here also:</p>

<p>From the entire North Dakota, there were 3 people enrolled at Stanford last year, 2 people attend Yale this year, and 1 person enrolled at Princeton two years ago. So, Stanford could be better.</p>

4

<p>Thanks! Do you know about Brown’s ND admission rate as well?</p>

5

<p>No, I don’t have the breakdown for Brown. Penn had 3 enrolled two years ago, and they accepted 1200 in ED. Brown, a similar school to Penn, accepted 567 in the ED, one-half of what Penn accepted. So my guess is that Brown enrolled 1 1/2 this year? :)</p>

6

<p>@ewho: LOL… Stanford’s a better bet because it enrolled 3 instead of 2…</p>

7

<p>Sounds like a popularity contest: these schools have relatively little in common except being reasonably to very well-known. They range from urban (e.g. Yale) to suburban (Stanford, Princeton), strong undergraduate emphasis (Princeton) to little undergraduate emphasis (Harvard), academically top flight (Yale) to academically so-so (Brown). Figure out what you want from your education and you may find that your list changes. That said, if you are happy you are unlikely to be poorly served at any of the above.</p>

8

<p>All of the schools identified by the OP are academically superb, with some differences in relative strengths in various disciplines. OP, you would have ample opportunity to explore different prospective areas of concentration at any of these great colleges, so best of luck gaining admission, and for sustained good health going forward.</p>

9

<p>I lol’ed at Dad2’s Brown-bashing. “Academically so-so”? Really?</p>

<p>PS. I’m not a Brown student.</p>

10

<p>In terms of where to apply, you will most likely have the greatest chance of acceptance applying to Brown ED, just based off acceptance rates alone. There’s no evidence suggesting that applying SCEA to either Stanford or Yale with boost your odds; on the contrary, it’s highly possible that due to a slightly stronger-overall applicant pool, it’s actually more difficult to be admitted (this is not true for schools with ED). Princeton, as has been mentioned, doesn’t have any type of early admissions program. Also, the siblings should give some boost, but nothing substantial.</p>

<p>That said, if you do intend on applying ED to Brown, there are a few things you should seriously consider beforehand. If you need financial aid, you will not be able to compare packages applying ED. Stanford, Princeton, and Yale do tend to be a bit more generous with financial aid than Brown, so that’s something to think about. Also, and I’d say that this applies to you especially, as you aren’t completely set on the school: if it is not your absolute first choice, I’d be very hesitant to sign the contract–there’s really no way getting out of it.</p>

<p>All of the schools have both fencing and crew teams, they’re all going to provide you with myriad opportunities, and you will find excellent professors at all of them (and many, many other schools as well). Your decision should come down to two things: one, after thinking more specifically about what you really want: closer to home or further? More of a sports atmosphere or not so important? Residential colleges or theme houses? Open curriculum or some breadth requirements? City or town? Palm trees or snow? (hint: there is a right answer to that one…just kidding). You’re considering four excellent schools, and the factors you’re looking for just affirm that. But if you want to really differentiate between them, the kind of differentiation that will enable you to commit to one over the rest, it requires more specific introspection about what you want. Oh, and the second thing? Where you feel the most at home. If you haven’t already, I recommend visiting each school, and if possible, staying overnight, so you can see what it’s really like on campus.</p>

<p>Time for a little Stanford plug to close off: Like I said before, all of the schools you’re considering are superb, in many ways. When I was a senior, I found myself choosing between a similar list of schools: Stanford, Yale, Harvard, a specific program at Penn, Dartmouth, and a few others that were less similar to the schools you’re looking at. I didn’t apply to Princeton or Brown, but did visit both. When applying, I didn’t really care about the city/suburb location, the distance from where I lived, or many of the factors above that I wrote for you to think about. Did I consider them? Yes. But my biggest priority was that second part above, where I felt most at home. And I could picture myself on any of those campuses, though Stanford and probably Yale the most. After I got my acceptance letters (I applied RD to all), I went into round two of deliberations. I re-visited many of the schools. I looked even deeper into programs. When it came down to it, I chose Stanford for the following:</p>

<p>-Environment: cliche, but the warmth, the beauty, etc were definitely a strong selling point. I felt like it was a place where I could be happy, even when I was stressed. That’s remained true, even as I enter my third year here.
-Public Policy major: none of the other schools offered this, and at the time it was what I was most interested in. I’m actually a HumBio major now, minoring in PubPol, but that was one academic element that stood out to me. HumBio is pretty unique too, ironically.
-Social options: Stanford has such a wide array of things to do, during the week and especially on the weekends. At some of the other schools I considered, it was either frat parties or just hanging out in people’s rooms, but here we fill everything in between: Special Dinners, wine events, all the way to Exotic Erotic (please don’t google that). It’s never boring, and there’s no pressure to drink, unless you want to.
-Students: Call it the “duck effect” (though I think that’s really less prevalent than people make it out to be) or just attribute it to the weather, the Stanford students I met just seemed to be generally more relaxed, more laid back. College is hard. I wanted to spend it somewhere where people weren’t constantly complaining about that fact, or slaving themselves over it.</p>

<p>I was going to go on, but I realized this post could end up pages long if I do so. To summarize: you have a bunch of great options, really think about what you want and where feels right before deciding, and Stanford’s the best (hehe). Good luck and stay healthy!</p>

11

<p>ChancingFanantic,</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. Feel free to tell me anything else you want to get across; this was very helpful. </p>

<p>I actually have visited all of the schools I talked about and many more. I felt right at home at both Brown and Stanford. Distance from home is not a problem–both schools are about equal. Palm trees and warm weather are definitely a big attraction, along with the fact that California is an area where I’d love to get connections. However, I think that the quality of my education and type of people I’m surrounded by outweigh these pluses. Brown’s students seems very outgoing (sort of crunchy), pretty laid back, and relaxed. At Stanford, everyone seemed really enthusiastic, competent, eager to help, and also relaxed. Both schools emphasize a multidisciplinary approach and give students a lot of academic freedom. I know I’d be happy at either school, but I’m leaning towards Stanford.</p>

<p>The question is if I should apply early to Stanford. I think my odds of acceptance are definitely somewhat higher at Brown. However, Stanford is early action, not early decision, which allows me to reconsider everything in the spring, including financial aid (which won’t be the deciding factor). I’ve read some reports that admission rates early action at Stanford are almost twice as high as regular decision rates. However these early action rates are still about half the acceptance rates for Brown’s early decision. Stanford is my natural inclination, but I’d rather get accepted into Brown than neither of these schools. Is it really true that it would be harder for me, as an on-the-edge applicant, to be accepted early vs regular at Stanford? Again, I really appreciate the input. </p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

12

<p>OP, while you’re waiting to hear from ChancingFanatic, I will opine that it will be pretty hard for you to be accepted at Stanford as an on-the-edge applicant in either pool (early or regular decision). You may get a bit of a boost at any of these schools because you come from a typically-underrepresented state, and you have a good story to tell in your essays about having worked to overcome your illness. However, all of these schools are extremely hard to get into, as you know. I do think you should apply to as many of the schools you listed as you are interested in, but there should be others on your list as well. With respect to your specific question about Stanford early action vs. Brown ED, I would only go with Brown ED if you are completely certain you’d be happy to end your application process there and not wonder “what if?” forever after. ED is binding, and the only way to escape it is if the college doesn’t make it financially possible for you to attend.</p>

13

<p>ditto on zenkoan’s comment. Obviously the correct answer here is Stanford as it is far nicer than anywhere else on the planet :slight_smile: Of course, I haven’t actually showed up yet, but only a few more days. Providence is cold and chilly, Stanford is nice and sunny. The academics are reputed to be slightly better at Stanford, but I think you won’t be lacking intellectually at any of these schools. I choose Stanford. That’s why. I guess.</p>

14

<p>Here’s some questions I’d ask myself progressively if doing ED:</p>

<p>-If I get in, will I be a good fit and happy to attend this particular school?
It seems the answer to this is yes to you. Moving on…</p>

<p>-If this were EA instead, and I got in, would I apply to other schools?
It seems this answer is yes to you. Moving on…</p>

<p>-Would I apply to other schools mainly for the heck of it, thinking maybe something might change in a month or two, or because I seriously want to consider other options?
I’m leaning towards the latter for you here. Moving on…</p>

<p>-If after I (hypothetically) applied and got accepted to the other schools, would I change my mind?
It seems this is a maybe for you.</p>

<p>-If I changed my mind, would I be substantially better off?
Up to you to decide.</p>

<p>That said, if there is a school that is maybe just a bit better but where your chances of admission are likely worse (I don’t know if you’re that much worse off in Stanford admissions though, cause I can definitely see you getting in), then ED *may<a href=“or%20may%20not”>/i</a> still be a good idea. But instead of being able to make this decision by the end of senior year, you are forced to make it at the start. You and your interests can change a lot during that time. Mine certainly did. </p>

<p>I’d never do ED really unless it was to Stanford, which was my dream school throughout the process.</p>

15

<p>Regardless of how you feeling about your ED vs. EA chances at say, Brown vs. Stanford, don’t go ED if you have other schools that you would love to go to. You say that Brown and Stanford are about equal, but you would also love going to Princeton/Yale. Don’t commit yourself to ED to “increase” your chances of admissions per se. Such was the case with me – I felt I had no discernible chance at getting into Stanford and I felt that I wanted a stronger chance so I almost went ED to Duke/Penn (hadn’t decided yet). In the end, I decided to apply for everything regular decision.</p>

<p>Just think:</p>

<p>10 or 20 years from now, you don’t want to think back and regret that you had applied early decision, because WHAT IF you had gotten into Stanford/Yale/Princeton. I would apply early action to either Stanford/Yale and then go with regular decision for the rest. Just my two cents.</p>

16

<p>Sorry for the delay in replying, it’s been pretty hectic (in a good way) since I got back to school.</p>

<p>I don’t know too many kids who go to Brown, but your description of Stanford students is a pretty accurate, concise summary. When I visited (man…three? four years ago now? Weird…) I came away with a similar perception. More so than anywhere else I was considering, Stanford seemed like a place where everyone was eager and energetic to tell me about all the opportunities it had to offer, to help me out, to make me welcome. That’s not to say none of the other schools were like that–I found that just about everywhere, students went out of their way to make me feel at home–but at Stanford it just seemed like it was in the air or something; it was natural. I’m happy to say that three years later I can say with confidence that my initial impression was correct.</p>

<p>From all of your comments, I’m getting the sense that if I were in your position, I would not apply ED to Brown. Admittedly, there’s probably some bias thrown in here, but you’ve stated on numerous occasions that you’re leaning Stanford, or you love other schools, etc. As others have said, while most likely you’ll fall in love with wherever you go, starting college with that glimmer of regret could have negative repercussions. If you do decide to ED Brown, try to fully accept beforehand the opportunities you may be passing up.</p>

<p>In terms of percentages, I looked up a Stanford Daily article from last year. Here are some statistics:
EA: 5566 apply, 753 accept = 13.5%
Overall = 7.2%</p>

<p>So you’re right, percentages work out in EA’s favor. Most likely, there is some boost from EA. But it’s smaller than it seems. Now, take this with a grain of salt as it’s based on pretty anecdotal information, but it does come from an Admissions Officer. The EA pool is stronger. That’s true, and while there’s no measure of how much stronger, it’s enough to play a role in any individual’s admissions chances. Is it enough to compensate for the higher acceptance rate? Probably not. In that case, I’d recommend applying EA. But keep in mind that the number itself is deceiving.</p>

17

<p>Is Stanford binding or no binding? No binding means you can apply to other universities in addition to stanford early right?</p>

18

<p>Brown has the advantage of an open curriculum that truly lets you explore many options. Brown also has ‘the happiest students’. Stanford has a beautiful campus and overall better athletics than Brown. Brown has a better emphasis on undergraduate education than does Stanford. The weather at Stanford is definitely better. Providence is a great city and you are not far from Boston or NYC at Brown. Coming from the Midwest, you may have a tougher time with the NorthEast (ask your sister about Yale).
Final recommendation- if you are truly leaning towards Brown than that should be your first choice. With a variety of interests, this would be the best school that would allow you to explore those opportunities due to the unique open curriculum</p>

19

<p>^ColeSprouse, Stanford has Restrictive Early Action, which means that you can’t apply <em>early</em> to other colleges (with certain exceptions spelled out on the Stanford admissions website, such as rolling-admissions colleges, and public colleges), but you can certainly apply regular decision anywhere you like because restrictive early action programs are non-binding. It’s really the best of all worlds for the applicant–especially if you get in in December! ; ) Then you’re in the position of being accepted at your first-choice school, while deliberating whether there’s any other college you still want to consider at that point. And there probably won’t be. : )</p>

20

<p>Consider Pomona if you want warm weather: students as bright or brighter than Stanford (certainly higher SAT’s, etc.), very happy place by reputation, and although very difficult to get into, not quite the crap-shoot that you’ll get at Stanford, probably a bigger boost from ED.</p>