#2 is not a high reach according to GC due to a couple other factors (his intended major, etc)
1 Like
I donât think he could fully avoid frat culture at #1 but as I wrote to another helpful poster, I wouldnât be surprised if he decided to join a frat either!
2 Likes
I agree with the comments about ABET certification if engineering is a possibility. While Iâm not super knowledgeable about that area, I understand it may not be possible to graduate in 4 years if a student takes some time to explore before settling into engineering. I wonât go into more as OP didnât mention engineering.
Also, if Greek life is a concern I suggest looking into the experience more than just the percentages. My kiddo is at W&L where participation is about 75% of students⊠and itâs not an exclusive process like at the stereotypical big Greek schools. I went to one of those (and participated in Greek life) and can absolutely say my kidâs experience at W&L has been much healthier than what I experienced.
Because of our experience I always recommend anyone research the Greek life at any school⊠because simply looking at the percentage of participation does not tell you whether or not it is the experience youâre looking for.
Back to the OP, if your son is set on ED I agree school #1 sounds like it has more pros and fewer cons. Best of luck whatever he decides!
ETA: I had not read the OPâs last couple responses when I typed this.
ETA2: I just reread my post and guess I need more coffee as I used âexperienceâ over and over. Oh well. Haha
4 Likes
I generally donât think ED is a good option unless the applicant had a clear number one. In this case the question for your S is if he is willing to effectively let his shot of an acceptance at option 1 go by not applying ED. If the answer is no then he should apply there EDâŠif the answer is yes then I would suggest he not apply anywhere ED. Your S needs to make this decision.
4 Likes
Thanks for your helpful response! I especially appreciated hearing about your sonâs experience at W+L - you are right - percentage of greek life participation doesnât tell the whole story!
2 Likes
I totally agree with your answer and this is what Iâve been trying to get him to do!
1 Like
As this website is based on anonymity and youâre anonymous, there is no chance of knowing who you or your child are. Weâd be able to give more helpful feedback if you named the schools because people here will undoubtedly know of these schools.
Frankly, option #1 sounds safe and boring. It might be perfect if your child feels unsure about being farther from home. I wouldnât ding a college for being a four hour flight away if the kid is eager to spread his wings. A major city is going to have tons of flight options.
To me, this factor overrides other concerns. When kids live on campus, the environment where they will spend four years of their lives should not be underestimated. It sounds like at #2, he will be able to explore who he really is and find new friends and interests. A more academically rigorous environment will challenge and stimulate him. Students change their minds about their majors all the time. And it didnât seem as though heâd have no access to courses possibly related to engineering.
My thought is that perhaps mom prefers him to stay closer to home, which is understandable, but if he is ready, itâs time for him to forge his own path.
I also agree though that if he genuinely doesnât prefer one school to the other, he shouldnât ED.
9 Likes
I think - kids can be happy at many places. They can also be unhappy at many places.
Many apply to their dream school - and yes theyâre happy - but they could have been happy at school 2-10.
Many apply to their dream school - the only school for them - and are on here writing how miserable they are - no friends, bad roomy, horrible profs, homesickâŠyou name it.
So I would take âdream schoolâ with a grain of salt.
Many go to non-elitist schools but may say thereâs no social life or no one for me. Others go to big SEC schools and are total ânerdsâ for lack of a better word - and thrive.
So - just know with ED - you give up financial flexibility (youâre not applying for aid but it doesnât mean you want to pay $80K a year) and youâre giving up âchoiceâ flexibilty. in addition to financial flexibility. Are you ok with that?
Has he done all his visits? Letâs say you are choosing - just throwing out names - between Lafayette and Bucknell. Has he been to Union or Trinity yet? Is there a chance he falls in love with another school?
So ED eliminates that.
Has he looked at curriculum and sub curriculum. You like the BA in engineering - but that might be physics driven only - and most jobs ask for Chem E, or Mech E or Civil E, etc. - they donât ask for âengineeringâ.
Has he asked the school for career outcomes - where do their engineers get hired? Intern, etc?
Are they successful, etc.
In the end, your son likely can be happy (or not happy) at many a school. The distance thing matters in this sense - youâd be amazed at how many kids have to be flown home for some unexpected away from home disaster - plus at the holidays or the short weekend, where they just need to see family - so 4 hours is better.
I just had a 9 hour journey to Charleston - because my daughter said - everyone elseâs family visits. I donât miss homeâŠbut I do miss my familyâŠso we went.
Good luck to your son.
PS - I assume heâs going to ED2 to choice 2??
As for ED/RD, the âeliteâ schools today are filling up 50% of their class ED. The non-elite schools are not going to get anywhere near that # of ED applicants as a percentage - so there is no doubt ED will offer an advantage but I donât think as much as elite schools.
You can check common data set for yields - but for example a Lafayette - has a 23% yield - and that includes ED - so they have to let in a lot just to get some.
if your son has that clear #1, then go for it. But even if he doesnât get into #1 or #2, it doesnât mean he wonât have an unbelievable experience at #3 or #4. And if he does get into #1, itâs no guarantee.
I guess what Iâm saying is - if youâre truly sure, go for it.
But for a kid who wants to study engineering and humanities - Iâd not ED - because it sounds like a kid who may be changing in the future.
And Iâm not sure a âgeneralâ engineering degree would provide true value in the job market - but thatâs why Iâd investigate outcomes - which should be readily available from the school or engineering department (as itâs likely small).
Good luck.
4 Likes
I agree that it is a pretty biased description of the two options and it sounds like you already have your first choice.
This comment caught my attention because is is a massive generalization. Students that are academically focused have many interests outside of the classroom. At one T10 school we toured, the AO said that they are looking for students who have what looks like a healthy work-life balance. I would be surprised if you couldnât find a fantasy football league at any college.
3 Likes
Edit - or 2nd one - as I read again, Iâd choose #2 - if it were my kid - but of course, the kid has to decide.
Across the country - not great - but many do it. Look at how many kids go from CA to the East or vice versa. It just means you may be doing short holidays with friends or alone.
More academically focused students is a pro, not a con - unless your kid is not âacademic.â. My daughter struggles with thisâŠI donât want to say her school is beneath her - but the focus of the majority of students isnât what her focus is. That said, sheâs taking advantage of things whereas others are partying, partying, and partying - or as she says, college should be about more.
Food is HUGELY underrated. So many kids eat out (spending thousands), donât eat and get low blood sugar, etc. You read about it at schools like Georgetown, etc. I would google niche + food and youâll see where your schools stand. But it is a huge factor - quality but also access - so donât underplay that one. Nice campus/dorms is important too - but itâs different to each kid.
My son at Bama lived in a single room, really nice - why he chose the school over higher ranked in fact - and yet didnât like it at all. My daughterâs dorm should have been legally inhabitable - but she was fine with it. I mean, it should be condemned (and will be renovated in the next two or three years).
But being able to wake up, see the sun, see nice green and architecture - depends on the kid - but that can set the positive tone of the day.
So good luck to your son.
ps - more academically driven kids LOVE fantasy football. Thatâs where it derived from so I disagree with that characterizationâŠespecially with all the data of today. They are more likely to have a team and to spend time setting up their weekly lineup.
3 Likes
I meant it more of a criticism of my S - that heâd rather talk about FF than go hear a lecture or something more intellectual. And yes, Iâm sure heâd find a FF league!
Thanks for your helpful answer. I totally agree with your analysis!
Thanks for your thorough response.
We have never used the term âdream schoolâ - I agree with you that kids can be happy at many places.
He has seen all the peer institutions and these two consistently are his top two favorites.
I do understand the issues you raise around engineering. #2 is know as a top engineering school, but when he looked at their curriculum he couldnât find a concentration that appealed to him. I think itâs highly likely that he doesnât study engineering.
Agree that a four hour plane ride isnât a complete barrier - but itâs really an eight hour journey getting to/from the airport, etc plus not inexpensive.
Unfortunately neither school has ED2.
THanks again for your thoughtful answer!
I really donât have a first choice!
If youâre not applying for aid (you always should unless youâre so off the charts) - and you arenât expecting merit (you canât if you ED) - so you are already willing to pay $70-90K a year most likely - so a $300 airplane ticket vs. a $700 ticket - likely isnât a huge dealâŠwhen you look at it those ways.
If you said - weâre willing to spend $70K but rather spend $30K or $50K, etc. then you definitely shouldnât apply ED - and you should seek out schools (yes, even LACs) where you could hit that #.
Not suggesting you change your list - but I am suggesting that travel expense, based on your prior commitment, probably shouldnât be a huge factor - itâs chump change vs. the overall - and donât forget college costs more than the COA - Iâd say at least $3-5K.
Iâm of the - I could afford $80K a year - but didnât want toâŠso my mindset is a bit different.
Good luck.
1 Like
Is there any difference in cost? Letâs suppose that something goes wrong, and it takes 5 years to graduate. Would either school leave either the student or parents with debt?
I am not a big fan of 4 hour flights. As one example, if either of the ends of the flight are in the north, then snowstorms do happen around about Christmas time.
2 Likes
Is #1 a school where the ABET accredited engineering majors are likely to take more than four academic years?
If so, that can be a disadvantage if the goal is to work as an engineer but taking more than four academic years is not desirable (for cost or other reasons).
Iâd pick 2.
I like the idea of using college as a chance to explore a different part of the country. Home base will always be there, but how many opportunities do you get to check out a different part of the country by dropping into the ready-made that is college?
I like inclusivity. If you are going to meet new people, who needs additional barriers to making connections? And schools with this vibe encourage kids to try new things. As life goes on, it often gets harder to meet and connect with folks who are leading different lives. This could present life-enriching opportunity!
Academic rigor makes for a great classroom experience and often a great way to bond and collaborate with classmates. This doesnât have to mean grind - it can also mean engagement. Class can be more than an obligation. It can be something to look forward to. And donât underestimate the confidence that comes from successfully complete something hard!
No 1 sounds safe and same same. No 2 sounds more like an education.
But it is up to your son. If he flips a coin and doesnât like the result, maybe he has an answer.
6 Likes
Agree wholeheartedly. Was surprised that first several people âvotedâ school #1. Personally school #2 sounded better - more accepting and more academically rigorous. I think a 4 hour flight is a small price to pay for finding the right school/fit. (Personally I was an 8 hour flight away as my parents were in Europe at the time!)
3 Likes
Other people cannot carefully navigate your preferences. If you are unsure by 10/31, you can flip a coin.
2 Likes