help finding medium midwest LAC-type math/comp sci for brainy kid, unimpressive GPA, highish ACT

College Search & Selection
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<p>Hi! Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. I'm having a tough time finding good potential colleges to visit with my junior year son and I'd love it if you all would throw some names out for us to investigate further.</p>

<p>About him:</p>

<p>Brainy/geeky kid but very social. For instance, he speed-solves Rubik's cubes in competitions for fun and can recite umpteen digits of pi, yet he is not awkward and has a large circle of friends. Would like to hang out with other brainy kids, but isn't a terribly high achiever himself. His unweighted GPA is around 3.3 but he takes all AP/Honors classes with no study halls. Loves learning in all areas. Hasn't taken ACT yet but I project 31-34.</p>

<p>What he's looking for:</p>

<p>He doesn't know what he wants to do yet, but is thinking Math/Computer Science, possibly Engineering. Maybe even secondary ed in those areas. It would be great to have the flexibility to change directions and/or double major.</p>

<p>I'm thinking Liberal Arts might be best, or at least a college that has the requirement or the ability to take a wide sampling of classes, would be preferable. He loves learning and it would be a shame if he went head first into all math/science classes without continuing to learn about history, psychology, all those fun things.</p>

<p>He would prefer a small-to-medium sized school, 2000-12,000 in size ideally. He wants to be able to walk in a class and recognize at least someone without it being all the same people every time. Setting (urban/rural) isn't important.</p>

<p>Would prefer Minnesota, Iowa, or Wisconsin, but would extend to surrounding areas. Anything within a driving distance of 6-10 hours from Minneapolis/St. Paul would fine, and more would not be out of the question if the school were perfect for him.</p>

<p>We'd like to find a sweet spot between a highly competitive school (where he would likely flounder as he's not terribly hard working) and a too-easy school where he would have trouble finding others at his intellectual level and wouldn't find the classes stimulating/challenging enough. (This is the area where we're struggling the most. For instance, I think Luther College in Iowa would be good for him, but he wasn't impressed with the limited scope of the Computer Science department there. Same goes with Gustavus.)</p>

<p>Money is a factor to consider. For a pricey school, he would need to receive some decent merit aid that was based more on ACT score and less on GPA. His extra-curriculars are solid but not stellar, no impressive leadership positions as of yet. Cross country JV, marching band, church youth group, NHS, volunteering, etc. Definitely can't afford high price and we won't qualify for much if any need-based aid due to a recent inheritance of family property, but we don't need to go bargain-basement either. A state school would be ideal but I'm not optimistic and we're both willing for him to take out a moderate level of student loans if necessary.</p>

<p>If I've forgotten to provide any details that would help, please ask.</p>

<p>Again, thanks so much for the help with recommendations/leads. Finding a college for my daughter (freshman in college) was a piece of cake compared to this kid!</p>

2

<p>South Dakota School of Mines and Technology is a small, inexpensive, engineering focused school that is not that selective.</p>

3

<p>Minnesota-Morris. Bradley University in Peoria.</p>

4

<p>Knox, Grinnell, Beloit. Reaches maybe Carleton and Macalester.</p>

5

<p>If some things are ideal about Luther or Gustavus, take a look at Concordia–Moorhead; with the Tri-College agreement, he has the opportunity to take more CS at North Dakota State, but still have the climate of a LAC.</p>

6

<p>SD Mines may be a very good fit for him. Minneapolis and Denver are the two closest major metropolitan areas to Rapid City, therefore SDSM&T is in your target region. The school is very intimate because of its small size (but not tiny).</p>

<p>Mines is a very challenging STEM school whose Humanities offerings are relatively few but surprisingly good, particularly the English/Literature courses. Your son can explore English, History, Psychology, Philosophy and Political Science, for example at Mines. The school is situated on a compact campus near downtown Rapid City, but it is not a ‘brutal concrete’ looking campus. Lots of extra-curricular activities on and off-campus. The student body is diverse in that a significant proportion of the population comes from at least 30 other states and overseas. The great outdoors is just a stone’s throw away. </p>

7

<p>Agree on SD Mines, and would add St. Olaf. Carleton will be a reach, as would possibly Mac. Grinnell also likely a reach.</p>

8

<p>“He’s not terribly hard working” is very likely going to come back to bite him in the butt! College is a whole different animal than high school, where he may have been able to get good grades (but could’ve gotten great grades) with a minimum of work. I would focus more on his work ethic and readiness for college before I tried to find a fit for his style. That said, he will be able to take those interesting courses at most schools. Engineering may make it more difficult because there are so many required courses. Also, most Engineering programs have weeder courses that separate those who are truly serious and ready to work. These may prove a stumbling block. I wonder if it might be worth it to find what it is that really excites him and that will motivate him to work hard. Ask yourself how much have you had to stay on him to get work done at this level…this will be all on him at college.</p>

9

<p>May be worth thinking about some of the Jesuit schools in the area such as Marquette, Xavier, Loyola-Chicago. They are not LACs but they are mid-sized universities with mostly smaller classes I believe. I think Marquette has engineering but you need to check. All Jesuit schools have a large core which would guarantee that he would take a wide variety of liberal arts classes along with classes in his major…</p>

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<p>Thanks for all of the replies! I had never heard of many of those schools so I will go do my research. Any other ideas for me? </p>

11

<p>What about Michigan Tech? If he is leaning math/comp sci/engineering, it might be a great fit. One of D2’s best friends from high school (in MN) is there and really likes it a lot. I don’t think Carleton is going to be an option with a 3.3 GPA, though.</p>

12

<p>Not an LAC, but look into Iowa State. Great engineering programs, but not super-competitive. We just visited last weekend and loved it. They do a lot to make it seem smaller, and the advising seems excellent. For OOS from MN it works out to be about the same (or potentially less) with automatic scholarships that are based on test scores and GPA.</p>

13

<p>I wonder if he finds high school work boring and perhaps that’s why he doesn’t like to work hard or maybe he’s got an undiagnosed learning disability. It would be a shame to discount his future because of issues currently presenting themselves. If, indeed, he does find the capacity to work harder in college, then I think Grinnell sounds like a great fit for him. From the sound of his personality and intellectual bent, he would love it – but it is a very very rigorous school!</p>

<p>It has an excellent CS department, a licensure program for teaching, and special scholarships for Iowans. Grinnell also has a 3-2 Engineering program, but this probably wouldn’t work for him. I think it limits the ability of a student to take a variety of programs as they have to meet certain prerequisites in their three years at Grinnell before transferring to the Engineering program for the final two years. But, I would suspect that the Physics department or the Career Services office (which also advises on grad school application) would do a good job of advising students who are interested in a future in engineering even if they haven’t done it as an undergrad.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/about/offices-services/financial-aid/scholarship-opportunities?group=22711”>http://www.grinnell.edu/about/offices-services/financial-aid/scholarship-opportunities?group=22711&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Education | Grinnell College”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academics/areas/education&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academics/areas/physics-astronomy/3-2-engineering?group=9314”>3-2 Engineering Program | Grinnell College;

<p>As to the GPA, what matters is the class rank, not the GPA itself. Colleges often recalculate GPA according to their own formulas to standardize. They also want to see how a student did within the context of their high school and the rigor of their curricular choices. If your school doesn’t rank, it should have a profile that shows generally where the students stand in relation to others. </p>

<p>For your son, at least in terms of Grinnell, i suspect that what will be important is how he stacks up compared to the other Iowans applying. Grinnell does like to have students from Iowa, but I think that it generally wants to keep it within a certain percentage of the entering class, so that might be good or bad for you depending on the talent pool applying around the state. Of course, this is conjecture on my part, though. I’m just a parent looking from the outside in to the Admissions process….</p>

<p>I am a parent of a Grinnellian, so am happy to answer any more questions you might have about the school.</p>

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<p>Liberal arts schools aren’t going to have a deep CS dept usually. I do read good things about Grinnell but they do have a very strong applicant pool and I don’t think he would get merit. Somewhere here there is a very detailed thread one mom started on LAC with CS and many contributed to. I don’t know if I can find it you can try the search yourself it is at least 7 or 8 pages iirc.</p>

<p>It seems he would be suitable for a lot of state colleges, where are you instate? Iowa state has very good CS I believe.</p>

<p>Try the CTCL schools that he likes where he is in the top 25% if you are looking for merit. Although the gpa isn’t that high the rigor may boost him. I’d go farther a use a plane for money.
<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org/”>http://www.ctcl.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also there is a great but very very long thread in Parents forum, schools for the Jewish B students. You don’t have to be Jewish, those are just regular colleges that have good Jewish resources. Mostly it is great resource for B students.
<a href=“Colleges for the Jewish "B" student (Part 1) - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/931514-colleges-for-the-jewish-b-student-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

15

<p>My nephew just graduated from University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire with a computer science degree. Every summer he had nice paid internships (IBM in MN was one) and landed a job after graduation in San Francisco. UW-EC isn’t a liberal arts school but it’s a really nice mid-sized university and it’s ranked fairly high. I’m not certain but I think it’s in the midwest college exchange for getting reduced tuition by students in midwest states.</p>

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<p>That’s a good suggestion, should be a strong program. MN get same rate as WI, and there’s a good MSEP rate.
<a href=“http://www.uwec.edu/finaid/costs/”>http://www.uwec.edu/finaid/costs/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>But a LAC would be more individual relationship with your profs if you think he needs the extra support. </p>

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<p><a href=“Associated Colleges of the Midwest”>First SAIL Seminar for Faculty Will Explore the Topic "Animals" in Washington, DC, Next Summer - Associated Colleges of the Midwest;
<a href=“http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/list”>http://www.ctcl.org/colleges/list&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>These schools fall in your size and location range, but won’t have engineering programs.
Some will, others won’t, have extensive enough offerings in math/cs to meet your needs.
Most are rather expensive private schools with good (but not necessarily outstanding) need-based and merit aid. They are similar in size, selectivity and curriculum to Luther College.</p>

<p>I don’t think your kid necessarily needs a CS department that offers 100 courses. You do need to ensure that the fundamentals are covered (algorithms, data structures, discrete math, etc) and that there are enough faculty members (say, 5 or more) to meet demand.</p>

18

<p>Consider Case Western</p>

19

<p>Engineering at Iowa State is no Sunday morning stroll. It’s a program of much renown with an equally well known “weeder” reputation.</p>

20

<p>I would expect that any decent CS, engineering, or math department at a less selective school has somewhat of a “weeder” tendency by default, since a minimum level of rigor in the frosh/soph level courses is necessary to prepare the student for junior/senior level courses in those majors.</p>